Who's more valuable for patriots: Belichick or Brady?

Belichick has now coached 180 games without Brady - that's 11+ seasons.

He's at 80-100. 44.4% winning percentage, one playoff win. He's had a top 8 offense exactly once in those 11 seasons.

Belichick is now tied with Chip Kelly for winning percentage without Tom Brady.

Some coaches who've won more than 44.4% of their games without Tom Brady:
Zac Taylor
Joe Philbin
Jerry Glanville
Dan Campbell
Ray Rhodes
Lovie Smith
Rex Ryan

With a poor start to next season, he'll fall behind Sam Wyche and Tony Sparano.

How much will the 84-103 or whatever it is without Brady hurt his legacy? Certainly not a small sample. My guess is not much because no one really cares who the best coaches of all time are. It isn't like there is a Vince Lombardi or Don Shula twitter contingent ready to celebrate his demise. Or emerging Andy Reid truthers. The only reason it is even discussed is usually as a way to diminish great players that got the benefit of being coached by them compared to others that didn't.

But it will be 1 of those things that gets brought up in the discussion around his career, similar to how it is hard to talk how great Manning is without bringing up his playoff record or struggles.

I think his failings post-Brady probably just re-center the conversation around jims and joes vs Xs and Os though. That is the last time you will have people thinking the coach is more valuable than the best player on an elite team for a long time.

I don't think it will matter. How many of those other coaches coaches got garbage rosters for 200 games.
It's not like Lombardi or whoever were trotting out Mac Jones types to the Superbowl.

If you look at those rosters (which to be fair for some he did a horrible job as gm) did he really underachieve with them?

It's also safe to say he's definitely lost a few steps as coach relative to 20 years ago. But when a great player hangs on and sucks for a few years at the end nobody really holds it against them.

update!:

wins in 2023
hoodie - 4
bardy - 0

goat oat

At season's end, if Tom Brady announced that he was looking to be a Head Coach in the NFL, would he have been hired for one of the openings that everyone has passed on Belichick for?

Indianapolis would have been excited. Other than that? Doubtful.

Yikes.

nice bump 😀

I still think it was Belichick all along. 😃

71% percent of you voted for Bill? Unreal.

In fairness to myself, Jordon Hudson wasn't an option back then

Sick bump.

IMO the only coaches who REALLY impacted and permanently changed how the game was played on the field and were actually his’n-your’n your’n-his’n guys were Paul Brown & Bill Walsh, not that there weren’t aren’t plenty of guys who were great personnel men, made key innovations based on that personnel, and could actually manage a close fourth quarter without an oxygen mask.

But Brady’s Tampa years combined with Belichick’s coaching shrub, oh Lord.

Imagine a newly single Hank Stram walking into a swingers bar with Joe Namath in 1978 and talking to the stewardesses in his Super Bowl IV voice.

i definitely feel like brady was a generational talent that would have brought many championships to a lot of coaches

having said that, i think it's a little unfair to judge bill by what he did in his twilight and even if it were the result of having brady, he definitely created his own system and had a level of gravitas otherwise unknown amongst nfl coaches of his era

Oh yeah, it’s been fun poking Belichick’s ashes, but Brady wasn’t getting six rings with Mike McCarthy (or Jerry Jones).

"Because that's how I learned to play the game."

I'm fine with those guys. To err is human. It's those seven cowards that voted "both equally valuable" that I have a problem with.

at this point we need to make a poll whether TB will have more plastic surgeries than rings by the time it's all said and done

SE Braintrust: This man is more valuable than the greatest football player of all time.

Belichick: *goes 2-6 in the ACC*

lol Larry Legend