Israel/Palestine thread

its worth nothing that this whole clash of civilization thing could be straight out of Benjamin Mileikowsky's mouth.

Ok... you guys are pretty lost on this. That's why I stay out.

Of course people are trying to live their lives. They don't hold the power. That's what you guys aren't understanding. It is a clash of culture, and you're simplifying this whole complex issue like teenagers. Seriously... no reasoning at all going on here. Just very simplistic takes.

the fact that you think Western culture is inherently Superior to the people living in a prison camp for generations and so much so that it somehow justifies their mass murder is exactly why I called you a White Supremacist awhile back.

Such a sophisticated take. My god how did no one think of this! Western culture is superior, Islam sucks, kill them all!

I don’t think Hamas and/or the Palestinian people are fighting for the right culture. I think Islam is awful. Now what? Who cares? Israel is still mass murdering tons of innocent people and yes, they are innocent no matter how much the Palestinian kids and women might hate the gays…..

An example of a left-winger engaging in extreme pro Israel rhetoric. Here is CNNs Van jones Making a joke about dead gazan babies on a panel with Bill Maher….Jones is one of those interesting cases of left-wingers who criticizes things like white privilege who is pro BLM yet when it comes to the most violent racism in the modern era, which is Israel’s war in Gaza, this guy has not only no real solidarity with the people of Gaza, but he is actively supporting Israel. It is astonishing. And it is something that is a big part of the left wing. You have politicians like Chuck Schumer, Debbie Schultz and many more leading Democrats, who are openly pro- Israel.

“Van Jones's Disgusting & Revealing Dead Gazan Babies "Joke" on Bill Maher's Show”

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=9Jzca5u-97...

Jones later apologize for the comment, but even in the so-called apology never actually made the Israeli government responsible for the dead babies in Gaza. Here is a guy in Jones who goes around on television shows with a ribbon for the Israeli hostages(including IDF soldiers) in Gaza . But he doesn’t wear anything on his suit signifying solidarity with the people of Gaza who are being hurt on a scale thousands of times greater than that of Israel.

What is most fascinating is the pro war in Gaza people will attempt to convince people that Israel is unfairly criticized. And this is one of the reasons why they are losing big time in political discourse. And why it is so cringe worthy when pro war in Gaza people smear people with the lie of antisemitism.

This is why we now have a majority of Europeans and Americans opposed to the Israeli government. Americans are fed up with how traditional media is gaslighting us. And it is why people like Candace Owens, Glenn Greenwald, and Tucker Carlson are crushing Fox News, CNN or MSNBC when it comes to viewership…. Because anyone can turn on Fox News or CNN and at least once a day if not more you’re going to get These major news outlets platforming someone directly from the Israeli government…. But again you look at the other areas of the world like Ukraine or just going back a few years Syria ….nobody ever on these major political media platforms gave an interview to someone who is pro Putin or pro Assad. I have never seen CNN or Fox interview a Russian general Or some Russian politician like they do every day with IDF officers and Israeli politicians

It always comes down to the same propaganda from the pro war in Gaza people.

“you support radical Islam”

No nuance no critical thinking just dumb one-liners and propaganda. It is quite clear There is far more nuance and critical thinking from the people who are critical of the war on Gaza, who often point out not only Jewish media personalities and scholars like Glenn Greenwald or Jeffrey Sachs, but also the Israeli citizens who are publishing material critical of the IDF such as from 972 magazine or Haaretz.

It’s incredible that some of the pro war in Gaza people have the audacity to smear people with false claims of antisemitism while simultaneously openly hating Islam and Muslims saying things like “oh why isn’t there criticism of a Muslim takeover of Europe?… people are talking too much about the war in Gaza start talking about something in Africa or some Muslim thing.”

“this is a culture war people are either supporting radical Islam or democracy loving Israel”

Nm the nuances and obvious points that within Israel there are highly religiously conservative Jews. There are secular Jews who support the IDF, religious Jews, who do not support the IDF, secular Jews who do not support the IDF. Within the Muslim world there are secular nationalists who are into pan Arabism and celebrate the likes of Nasser of Egypt … atheists in Muslim majority countries like Albania and Turkey and Egypt who are very critical of the IDF ….and the more right wing conservative leaning religious Muslims that are the ones advocating for theocracy.

Yeah, except I don't think that... at all... not even remotely. I'm not even fully "white". I could just as easily call you an antisemite, because you've blatantly expressed such opinions... but I don't.

But regardless, there's a ton of antisemitism in this thread. It's like, over the top crazy bad. I don't have a dog in this fight, other than using reason, and you guys have such extremist views of this situation, nobody could have a discussion rationally w/ any of you.

Have fun with your very rational takes everyone.

I mean, you're the one who isn't responding to simple questions.

A "rational take" would include quotes.

The issue we're discussing is why conspiracy theories are spreading. Is it really that complex? Is it possible that people are applying poker-style thinking to geopolitics (much as the actors themselves do), determining that the present state of information is actually really shady, and becoming more interested in the subject?

Or does it have be a massive antisemitic conspiracy, as you outlined in your post?

Do you see the irony here?

Never realized ''stop killing innocent women and children'' was considered antisemitic AND an extremist view.

The vast majority of people suck at poker. Just as the vast majority of people suck at geopolitics. For much of the same reason at a 40,000 foot view level. We let our lizard brains take over and make emotional decisions.

You are basically making the argument that if a majority group engages in large scale discrimination/persecution of a minority group, it is because there is good reason for it because people acting in large groups are fair and reasonable, and it is on the onus of the minority group to behave better.

And although conservative cultures generally operate under this implicit assumption (normally to justify their own behavior) as a general rule this is not how liberal societies orient or operate.

I don’t really see the irony and I think you’re focusing on a very minor part of my response. I’m not going to sit here and argue whether or not boiling global geopolitics with a ton of historical context down to a simple poker analogy is correct or not.

I think you’re the one primarily interested in why conspiracy theories are spreading, while the rest of us don’t find it all that compelling. I tried to humor you with a civil response.

I’m not sure how you got that it’s all due to an antisemitic conspiracy from my post but maybe let’s agree to disagree.

Antisemitism has never gone away and social media and extreme rhetoric among many other factors are empowering people all over the world who’ve long held antisemitic beliefs.

It's not, and that is a reprehensible trivialisation. It's an ethnic and territorial dispute.

Well, except most Israel critics want to argue their critique of Israel is part of a larger ideological war against “white supremacy and colonialism,” which is acknowledging their motives goes far beyond mediating or taking a side in an ethnic and territorial dispute.

And the fact there is mostly apathy from this crowd about every other ethnic and territorial dispute in the world certainly supports the case their interest goes beyond this.

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

Freak Daddy:

--Mouin Rabbani

Hamas agreeing to a deal (with themselves) is never the problem. They have been agreeing to the same deal for 2 years. The problem is them agreeing to something that isn’t a complete nonstarter, namely demanding a full Israel withdrawal before they slowly release hostages over months/years.

Which has always made it easy for Netanyahu (who doesn’t want a deal anyways) to refuse one. They have always made it easy on him.

So the real question is whether Hamas has moved to a position Netanyahu can’t refuse, or if Trump is going to force him to take a bad deal even the Israelis who want a deal don’t want.

At this point it’s just repeating Hamas propaganda. I saw Kyle Kulinski literally read off a Hamas press release word for word yesterday as if they were an authority.

So terms are leaking out and it looks like Hamas is agreeing to let Israel forces remain in Gaza. Which means this is probably a deal they could have made at any point in the last 2 years, and this is a major capitulation by them.

It looks like I am correct and the real deal was between Qatar and the US to push Hamas aside for other considerations (such as the Qatar defense pact), including permitting the failed Israel assassination strike.

The genocide won't stop. You guys don't need to worry too much. Bibi will reinvade as soon as the genocidal POWs are released. Hopefully Hamas can use the pause to rearm enough to continue hurting the genocidal Extremist Supremacist invaders when they inevitably return for more blood.

And Netanyahu probably doesnÂ’t even mind that Hamas is remaining, and not handing over weapons. As Hamas remaining in control means no real movement towards a Palestinian state.

Which by the way Hamas also doesnÂ’t want.

Something which westerners donÂ’t acknowledge but I think it a real part of the equation is just how radicalized and deluded the average Hamas Jihadi is. And how this delusion directs their decision making.

One of the hostages who understands Arabic says based on their talk most of the Hamas Jihadis literally believe that through the grace of God they will not only conquer Israel, but also the united states. So like Netanyahu, they view Hamas remaining in power and blocking a Palestinian state as a positive thing also. But unlike him, they are deluded.