GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

FINALS

15' Mosgov...... 11.8 gmsc..... 14/8 on 55%... 1.5 bpg
15' Tristan........ 11.2 gmsc... 10/13 on 50%... 1.0 bpg
16' Tristan........ 11.0 gmsc... 10/10 on 64%... 0.9 bpg
96' Rodman..... 10.2 gmsc......7/15 on 49%... 0.2 bpg

In addition to his "Mosgov-level" in the 96' Playoffs, the non-scorer Rodman only averaged 8 rebounds in the 97' playoffs and wasn't the starter in the 98' Playoffs (beaten by Kukoc).. He was a fossil and worse than 2010 Shaq or 09' Ben Wallace

MJ was MVP of every series, while Bosh was MVP in the 11' ECF, or Wade in 11' Finals, or Kyrie in 16' 1st Round, or AD in 20' WCF & Finals, or Allen in the 13' Finals (led Heat in plus minus while Lebron had zero plus-minus).. and more

Rodman was a wild child that wanted to be his own show separate from the team - even MVP's like Robinson couldn't handle the extra media scrutiny, disruption, or offensive burden that Rodman inflicts on teams..

Only MJ could command Rodman's respect, or handle the extra offensive burden and media pressure/scrutiny.. Essentially, teams needed to make massive accomodations to incorporate Rodman's disruption into the team, so he was a liability for every team - Jordan simply had the gravitas and scoring ability to handle the extra pressure and scoring burden that brought down every other team..

Btw, young Rodman was an impressionable, crying baby when he first arrived in Detroit, so this post refers to when he became his own man after Detroit, aka pink hair Rodman.. The fact that the Bulls won the 97' and 98' Playoffs without Rodman playing viably cements the point that he was lucky to be along for the ride.. Rodman averaged 4/8 on 37% in the 97' Playoffs, and wasn't the starter in 98' Playoffs.. He was a fossil like 09' Ben Wallace or 10' Shaq, except worse

We know that my version is better because it requires an artificial 3-point line to beat it.. If we removed the 3-point line, the 17' Warriors would get swept by the worst team in the 90's (Clippers) or 80's (Clippers), or 70's or 60's.. Today's fan doesn't understand that the same advantage that today's players have on 3-pointers, previous eras had that advantage on 2's (real basketball).

If you changed the rules my team would win. lol.

Anyway completely false. I'm still picking the Warriors against any team (including the Bulls from the 90s).

I'm sure Steph, Klay and Durant (who are all amazing from 3), would be horrible if you told them to shoot from mid-range.

It isn't about mid-range - it's about the fact that if we put Curry back in the 70's without a 3-point line, no one would give a **** about him shooting 25 footers for 2 points each - teams would let him shoot those at 45% in favor of defending 2-pointers from Unseld, Dantley or Dennis Johnson with higher FG% and FT rate, aka far higher PPP (points per possession).. Curry's 25-footers at 45% would be a tertiary option (at best) for most teams, in part because his driving game would be non-existent without guys respecting his 25-footer.

Even secondary guys like Vinnie Johnson might be comparable scorers to Curry in a lot of spots if we removed the 3-point line.. And obviously, higher level guys like Michael Ray Richardson would be considered a flat-out better scorer, playmaker and player than Curry.. Andrew Toney would be considered a better scorer and offensive option.. We haven't even talked about 2-point kings like Dantley, English, King or Vandeweghe, or big men lol - all these guys would be considered better offensive options than Curry when the 3-point line is removed, or if Curry was plopped into the 70's.

Btw, Klay wouldn't make the NBA in the 70's, while KD's game would be greatly diminished, similar to Curry's and for the same reasons.. KD is a stringbean that lacks the bully-ball required in previous eras, which is why many feel like Melo is a better pure scorer - he would be far better than KD in prior eras... So no, lol, the 17' Warriors get killed by the Bulls.. Heck, Harden nearly beat them in 2018 despite vastly inferior chemistry, brand of ball and toughness than the Bulls, and we know that Jordan would never have the 9 TO's that Harden had in Game 6 to trick off the series.

I don't even know how to reply to one of the dumbest posts of all time.

But if you think MJ shooting 45% from mid-range is amazing and he should be doubled, but Curry shooting 45% from 25 feet doesn't need to be guarded, then you may be even dumber than you appear.

Curry and all players don't take threes when the defender is within 2 feet - literally - Curry attempts 0.2 threes per game when the defender is that close (1 attempt every 5 games), and only 2 attempts per game when the defender is 2-4 feet away - this means that 80-90%% of his attempts occur when the defender is 4-6 or 6+ feet away... (Stats

https://www.nba.com/stats/player/201939/shots-dash?Season=2021-22

NBA

Stephen Curry | Guard | Golden State Warriors | NBA.com

Freeing shooters and getting them breathing room is why teams run offenses, but no team is going to run offense to free up a 25-foot two-pointer at 45%, when they can run zero offense and just have MJ, Dantley or Hakeem take a turnaround with defenders 0 feet away (making contact), at higher PPP (higher efficiency & FT rate).. Essentially, they're matching Curry with zero offense being run, so imagine how just a little offense would have them blow Curry away.

^^^ this is the nuts and bolts of how the basketball works without a three-point line, but just intuitively, Jordan shoots 45-55% from mid-range depending on the season, series or Finals, and then he shoots 60-70% at the rim against packed paints... So Jordan, English, King, Hakeem - whoever - are better offensive options than Curry's 25 foot 2-pointers at 45% a pop

Lebron played exactly like Pippen in the 11' Finals with 18/7/6 with zero clutch points for the entire series.. It's impossible to win with that, unless you're the GOAT - then you win 6 times with goat choker as teammate - six 2011 Lebron's

And when did Kobe lose as 1st option by shooting under 40%??... Meanwhile, history shows that Lebron lost 3 series as 1st option by shooting under 40%

Kobe 2004
Again the greatest choke ever .
Bigger then warrior 2016 and Miami 2011 .
Your own argument and stats says so …..

Doesn’t matter about LeBron making less points .
U keep claiming he shoots terribly .
Just proved you he did not and since you say FG% at 420% is not bad or terrible to save mj a$$,
just stfu with LeBron shooting .478% was the greatest choke ever …
Btw he did better than Kobe as well vs the same team …..
Kobe shot at .458% …

Jordan shooting 55% from midrange and 70% from near the basket is amazing for someone who barely broke 50% from the field.

Yeah, everyone agrees that Kobe 2004 choke GOAT choke. It's not even worth discussing anymore.

Jordan shot 54% in 88' and 89', or 56% in the 91' Finals.

But the point is that no team is going to run offense to free up Curry for a 25-foot two-pointer when they can just have MJ, Dantley or Hakeem dunk it or something or draw fouls.. completely smashing Curry's PPP - it isn't close - today's players are nothing without the 3-point line

.
.
2007 Finals..... 22 on 35% and 6 TO's
2008 ECSF....... 26 on 35% and 5 TO's
2009 ECF......... record upset loss
2010 ECSF....... goat meltdown

After choking for 4 straight years from 2007-2010 (above), people wondered whether Lebron would ever win, so the 11' Finals was monumental in cementing people's growing suspicion that he was a choker.

Otoh, Kobe had already 3-peated, so no one viewed an off series as "choking"... But again, an off-series from LeRingless was the standard at the time, so people were tearing their hair out after he 3-peated upset losses from 09-11'

Lakers were huge favorites vs the Pistons in 2004 so it was viewed as a huge chokejob.

But the choke was on Kobe. Not the Lakers. He just kept shooting and shooting. It was horrifying watching it.

I mean Shaq averaged 27/11 on 63%. Absolutely dominate.

But Kobe thought he would take 6 more shots a game more than Shaq (and make 2 less). It was the most embarrassing performance ever by a star. It's the reason I can't put him in my Top 10. And why he's around 15-18 on the all time list.

When people talk about the biggest chokes ever, the 2011 Finals is viewed as the biggest choke in SPORTS history, not just basketball history.

Otoh, the 04' Finals isn't talked about as a choke, let alone a big choke... Everyone knows that Phil cost the Lakers a 7-peat from 00-06' by not making it Kobe's team starting in 03'.. Kobe won with Pau, so he would've won with Shaq as 2nd option too... But Phil didn't turn the team over to Kobe, so it was a big clash that caused the 04' loss..

All of this is common knowledge, historical record, and consensus

^^^ it's all ball-domination though, so 38 ppg of ball-dominance can't beat top teams.

Lebron also choked 3 games in the 4th quarter (losing leads) because he became a 12 turnover per game player in clutch-time (last 5 within 5)... It's impossible to win when your best player becomes Mr. Butterfingers in the clutch.

Ultimately, Lebron lacks the off-ball skill to dominate while the ball moves, so his high scoring levels can beat top teams.. He's also the biggest choker via turnovers that the game has ever seen, so this caused many losses like the 09' ECF

^^^ Pippen did that for the entire 96-98' Playoffs, yet MJ still 3-peated

The Cavs had the #3 defense in the league (better than every Bulls champion except 96')

So Mo was like Paxson and didn't matter defensively - the Cavs made up for Paxson/Mo at other positions

Lebron simply sucks because he couldn't beat an injured, 1-man team despite better help than MJ's title teams on both sides of the ball. He lost as a -700 favorite, so that's like OKC losing to the Pacers in the Finals

It likely isn't even in the top 75 LOL.

If youre narrowing it to "NBA finals featuring LeBron or Jordan" then you *might* have an argument. But all of sports? Insane

I believe the injury report. Bron probably hurt his back sitting down for a long video game session AFTER a hard workout - big mistake for an old guy.. The back is hella LOOSE for old guys after workouts, so sitting down for a long period will cause disc herniation and sciatica.. He needs to lay down after workouts until his back firms back up again, and then resume regular activity.. Another thing is that sciatica never goes away - it always comes back

Don't be delusional

If you ask any fan of any sport to name the biggest chokes ever, the 11' Finals will be mentioned

The so-called goat getting 17.8.ppg = goat choke ... And zero points when it was close down the stretch, aka clutch-time (last 5 within 5)

There's never been a star that scored zero points in clutch-time in a Finals, except Lebron.. Even Pippen scored 4 points in clutch-time during the 97' Finals (still less than Hornacek, Ostertag and Stockton)

The 04' Finals was viewed as a collective choke of disharmony and 'king of the hill' syndrome.

Accordingly, no one put it all on Kobe like the 11' Finals is put all on Lebron.

There are few series that are blamed all on 1 player like the 11' Finals.. It might be the only one.. Oh wait.. Bill Buckner.

Yeah, losing in 5 games when you are the -1000 favourite isn't a choke. lol, keep telling yourself that.

Anyway we aren't talking about it anymore. It's just a fact.

The 04' Finals was viewed as a collective choke of disharmony.. No one put it all on Kobe like the 11' Finals is put all on Lebron.

There are few series that are blamed all on 1 player like the 11' Finals.. It might be the only one.

I can say with absolute certainty that the vast majority of non-Americans will never have even heard of it.

Most people including sports fans elsewhere can name less than 3 NBA teams probably. Basketball is way more popular than it was obviously, but not to the point where people will even _know_ about this let alone consider it like you're saying.