ATs, stuck between a donk and a checkraise

- OK well I liked preflop, can quibble about sizing but w/e.

- Flop I fold to the raise but not the initial bet. I think this is a trivial fold.

- Turn I xb.

- River you need to be good 1/6 and are good 0/6. I'm never here but if I was I'd probably call because I'm a payoff wizard. In the cold light of day I fold though.

no offense but if you called river this hand is an abomination

if you called and won good for you, i wouldnt take anything from it and this forum shouldnt either

Maybe you could tell us the turn and river or maybe make them up? If the turn was an 8 then JT just became double gutted and every river completes a straight.

i mean i would call the river now

turn looks too big to me

appears we were right about v1

I'd take some entertainment from it.

Round of applause for the OP.

Yeah good point about JT, missed that. So there really are not any total bricks.

Turn action is weird. Would be happy to check behind ...or just shove if this is a value spot.

tbh i find it pretty difficult to put v2 on a value hand from any reasonable hand reading pov whatsoever. just seems like an easy spot for him to spaz the river while oop because he doesnt know what to do. rough guess is you win this 50+% and you need to win ~15% lol. i cannot overstate what a catastrophe folding the best hand here would be

is somewhat biased i suppose given op as it's obvious v2 didn't turn / river 2 pair or op would remember the cards but i just find it difficult to believe the parlay of v overcalling preflop with QQ / AA / AQss / maybe AQo (relevant bc eliminates a ton of his value combos), deciding to lead the flop instead of check raising the pfr after doing so, just calling a small x/r trapped in the middle after doing so, checking the turn when checked to, then calling the turn when there is a minraise behind to decide to open jam the river. like idk how that seems likely to anyone looking at the hh lol, certainly to the point where you are ~90+% confident you are beat

i think he probably has Ax and doesn't know what to do but i don't think i would bother trying to analyze / hand read too deeply vs this (0%) line with these odds and just call

Now that you are here, sigh call. I'd rather shove the turn that end up like this. If you are good, poker is thriving more than ever!

What java and sub said. Guess V1 was full of it. Awful sizing for a bluff x-r. And bluffing into someone w/o a fold button, AFAWK. Lol.

Call-y call. We're not thrilled, and V2 can obv have AQ---I think they have AQ---but making a bad fold here is a gigantic EV error. I think they've enough Qx garbage/poorer Ax (that still didn't connect with either brick) in their range to justify calling.

Shove turn instead of two tiny bets, if H is continuing with the hand too, though nibbling like this would work if H had AQ themselves. As said before tho, I fold to the flop x-r.

Not sure what V2 is doing or repping but I’m ready to find out. The most logical hand we lose to is 44 but does it really play this way? Talk about playing the long game.

Well then, forgive me, NittyOldMan1, for I have abominated.

LOL now I'm annoyed I didn't type my random thought about the most tilting hand to lose to in my post above, because it was this exact hand.

If the point is that V2 is jamming A9 and other worse AX combos on the river, fair enough. But we wouldn't have been in a position to bet turn or call river had we just folded on the flop facing V1's x/r and V2's donk-call.

Both opponents over-played their hands, but that won't happen often enough for us to want to continue with AT.

Agree. There's enough, "But Mommy, I have an Ace!," and other garbage that H beats with AT, than loses to when getting 5:1 on a call. I did say we weren't thrilled about calling, once we got here.

OP, from this and later play this session, does V2 fold if you just ripped it in on the turn? Or was he pretty sticky, as I'm guessing he was?

Agreed, and its important to note that the overplayed hands were still better than Hero. I think the flop was the inflection point - either we ship it as a bluff or we fold. Given how the hand played out, we definitely get a jam through V1, but I think V2 calls a lot. Still a better way to lose our stack because if V2 casually calls off a flop jam after all that action, then he is probably calling down with a weaker Ax too. We had a bluffing hand, we needed to look for ways to maximize fold equity not minimize it.

As it is, we sort of priced V2 in OTT, on the flop maybe we had some fold equity. Instead, we played a bluffing hand as if it were value looking to price the V in smoothly with the weaker part of his range.

Wish I knew. Not long after he suddenly realized he had to work in the morning, and racked up my chips and GTFO'd.

But on the other hand, if he were to have called off an almost 100-BB stack with TP2K, I think I would have noticed more about him than the fact that he looked like a shaved ape and could have popped my head like a zit.

This is exactly right, although I was certainly not going to ship the flop right into someone's AQ. I needed the turn action to confirm that my gut read — that neither one of these chumps hit as big as they were representing — was accurate. But I played it like I still had the boss hand, which was not the corrollary I should have drawn.

V2 line looks real nutted with the donk/c, x/c donkship line but can we really fold for 99$, we could've folded elsewhere???? It's either nuts/air for sure. Although V might view 2pairs as "nuts". If I had to guess, he either slowplayed nutted range (sets/aq/a4) or he was a super donkey that had an Ax/Qx that sticked with it the whole time, and river 2paired so he donk shove.

Not sure about the turn bet. We have a "bluff catcher" yet we are somehow piling in money.
If v1 had a bluff he's not calling a bet. If we are ahead of v2, we can still get some more money on him on the river.

Tbh, on flop facing a x/r, a donk/call on such a dry static board, it's probably the easiest fold ever.
x/r feels super nutted when there are 0 draws on such flop.

*edit* - just saw the reveal and surprised to see they both have AJ.
I guess V1 had a read on the donk, and you just flatting makes your hand looks faced up to him.
But when you called his x/r, he all of a sudden believes you have a monster(sets/top2 etc.)

You’re never ahead here; at least 80% of the time you’re in last with around 15% equity.

LMAO people saying that raisin13 instead of 6 or 10 is some huge error.

Folding to the donk is certainly better than calling.

I guess 7h because the 8 gives JT a double belly buster.