How to approach suspected cheating ?
I don't have proof, but I have a hunch that someone I'm playing with has access to hand outcomes in advance via somethin
99.99% of the time people are wrong about this.
You are going to need some proof, starting with multiple hands where you saw the player go to the flop on hands they in other circumstances would have folded.
Except if you are playing with Chauncey billups . Idk man .. I think this type of cheating with rfid trackers seems to be more and more common .
99.99% of the time people are wrong about this.
You are going to need some proof, starting with multiple hands where you saw the player go to the flop on hands they in other circumstances would have folded.
Except if you are playing with Chauncey billups . Idk man .. I think this type of cheating with rfid trackers seems to be more and more common .
Or the mafia.
I don't think we'll hear back from the OP. He's made about 50 posts in the Politics forum since he last posted here. I will give him tremendous kudos for admitting he misunderstood something though.
Thank you.
I did misunderstand the difference between RFID and the infrared bar code reading scheme demonstrated at defcon 8-9 years ago. I'm not a technical expert.
By the way ..... I stopped playing in the NLH MTT's at the place in question.
I did 2 things.
1) I spoke to the manager of the poker room and named the player whose results were rather extraordinary. The manager basically blew me off.
2) I went to the casino to observe 2 weeks later on the day that they run their biggest MTT of the week. There were ~ 300 entrants and the player in question had a stack of ~ 400k chips when the average stack was ~ 75k. He happened to be at a table on the rail so I was able to watch for ~ 30 minutes. His phone was on the rail angled in the direction of the dealer. Not proof of anything.
I'm planning to speak to management and I'm going to request that the player submit to a polygraph which I'm willing to pay for.
If they blow me off, then I'll name the player and the venue so that his play and results will be under a microscope.
I've never cheated in a card game in my life, but there is absolutely no chance that I would take a polygraph if someone accused me of cheating.
I think a large ingredient of my hunch is the capability of any player outcomes to be so consistently well above average in a turbo event which lasts 7-8 hrs with 20 minute levels.
Success in such an event usually boils down to really good results in 4-5 key hands. Flopping a set vs a big overpair, AA v KK or QQ type situations or two player both making trips or a flush. Completing or not completing a flush draw when all in on the flop.
A lot of people seem to reject the notion of cheating at small dollar MTT's, but to me that would be the smart way to go about this. The Postle situation .... he was considered stupid for making it so obvious. Big stakes and televised.
The defcon video from 2016 .... the guy who made the presentation was able to obtain a bar coded deck and a device to read the deck for $1500. If someone(s) are able to pull in a profit of $5k in a month off such an investment, that would be an excellent ROI.
How this could possibly work in practice is that the player registers early so that his starting table is known and an employee at the casino makes sure that the right deck(s) of cards gets given to the dealer assigned to that table. The advantage lasts until the table breaks.
I played at a final table recently with the player in question and he played so poorly at that final table ...... jamming 2x with T8o and T9o and punting off his remaining stack to Ax hands that called.
There's a fine line between paranoia and intuition. My intuition tells me something is wrong. I realize that sharing my hunch (and not understanding the difference between RFID and bar coding :-) ) is going to expose me to ridicule. That's part of the territory.
Except if you are playing with Chauncey billups . Idk man .. I think this type of cheating with rfid trackers seems to be more and more common .
Jeez, you are still hung on that? The Chauncey cheating was NOT using RFID. It used cameras to see the cards.
Let me explain this to you once more...when RFID reads a pile of cards, it can tell you all the cards in the pile but it cannot give you the order. To use RFID for the cheating you seem hung up on there are two methods. And one of those isn't really directly using RFID.
First if the dealer passes each delt card over your illicit RFID reader and you/the software know where that card is going, you can construct from this info what everyone has.
This has never been done in a regulated card room. In a non-streamed game it would be EXTREMELY easy to detect because it is very easy to detect if a deck has RFID chips or not.
The other isn't dependent on RFID though it can use RFID. In this method, in a streamed game the deck has RFID chips and each player has a RFID reader in front of them. Each player puts his cards above his reader. This hand information (2 cards per player's reader) from all the readers is passed to a "back room" where the hands are put into the stream/video information. This same thing can be done with hole cameras (or it could even be invisible bar codes though never hear of that option.)
The cheat is then this captured data going to the stream is passed to a player so he knows what the other player(s) hand is. But this isn't really RFID dependent. It isn't using an illicit RFID reader. The cheat is an inside man passing information.
This isn't really any different than an old MASH episode where Radar was using binoculars to read the oppenent hand and pass the info to Hawkeye. As noted, the info can just as easily be captured via camera's. Or other technology that can capture the cards.
I have not heard all the details in the just announced Chauncey Billops case. But I have heard that they used cameras NOT RFID to capture the cards. There are multiple ways this could be done. It could be hole card cameras, it could be a well placed fisheye lens on the felt reading the cards as dealt. It could be done over the shoulder as in MASH (though not likely). Or it could be a infra red (maybe UV) camera reading invisible barcodes. (This is probably the MOST likely but fisheye lens also has good probability.)
But another point, these were private games. They did not occur in regulated rooms.
Apparently you just tweet at the FBI when you suspect cheating
I think a large ingredient of my hunch is the capability of any player outcomes to be so consistently well above average in a turbo event which lasts 7-8 hrs with 20 minute levels. Success in such an event usually boils down to really good results in 4-5 key hands. Flopping a set vs a big overpair, AA v KK or QQ type situations or two player both making trips or a flush. Comple
No one here has said this player can't be cheating. He might be but he is NOT cheating by having an illicit RFID reader (as the deck in play would not have RFID chips.)
He probably isn't using a bar coded deck because, he would have to steal a custom deck and have the bar codes printed and then get that deck (actually 2 decks probably) in play at his table and then not get moved away from those decks. Or he could counterfeit the custom deck and have it barcoded. But still needs to get it into play. (And custom decks are not going to be easy to perfect or get into play.
If he is cheating, based on what you posted today, the most likely scenario is a camera on the edge of his phone (probably with a fish eye lens). He then positions this such he can see the face of the cards as they are dealt.
This doesn't require a specific deck, so when he gets moved his cheat moves with him. Doesn't required an inside man (though having one might help). Would be easiest if he had a helper to monitor the info an relay hands to him. But not absolutely necessary.
So again, no one has said there isn't cheating happening. Only that your initial theories were no where close to the methods that would work.
BTW, Postle wasn't caught because it was high stakes or streamed. Streaming was necessary for someone to have the info to relay to him. Streaming made the analysis easier because the actual hand histories were available. The stakes really had nothing to do with it.
The reason he got caught was he was greedy. He slaughtered the sheep rather than shearing them. If he didn't try to win every hand and every session regardless of how bad his holdings were and never making any mistakes, he could have continued cheating w/o detection.
The crotch stare was also suspicious but only because of how ridiculous some of the plays he made were.
W/o the stream proven he was cheating would have been near impossible because there would not be the volume of data necessary for the analysis. But ofc w/o the stream, he likely would not have had access to the info he needed to cheat.
There's a fine line between paranoia and intuition. My intuition tells me something is wrong. I realize that sharing my hunch (and not understanding the difference between RFID and bar coding :-) ) is going to expose me to ridicule. That's part of the territory.
It was not sharing your hunch that exposes you. It was a) making claims that are literally not possible AND refusing to accept when why they were not possible.
Neither RFID not bar coding are likely what is happening here. RFID crack odds are infintesimal. But even bar coded deck odds are miniscule in your particular situation. Due to getting a bar coded deck into play that isn't immediately caught, having that deck(s) follow you to tables.
Now a camera on the rail that picks up the cards as dealt, esp. if the dealers tend to elevate their pitch some, is much more possible. It is definitely more theoretically possible than the two methods you seem married to. But you still have not presented nearly enough evidence. Frankly, getting that evidence will be difficult if the person is cheating well. The couple of odd ball hands and some near term run good are not even close to enough to make accusations.
Good cheaters are actually not easy to catch and prove. You have to go with your hunch and remove yourself. If enough eventually do so his profit dries up.
So again, no one has said there isn't cheating happening. Only that your initial theories were no where close to the methods that would work.
I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment. I have acknowledged that I didn't understand the difference between RFID and the infrared bar code reading that was demonstrated at defcon in 2016.
In order for the infrared scheme to work, all it takes is one entrepreneurial casino employee who has access to the decks and responsibility for assigning them at the outset of the tournament. That person can send a couple of casino decks to the party that adds the bar codes. Then that employee would need to recruit a player accomplice and equip them with a reader.
From a purely scientific point of view, I was offering an hypothesis, not a theory.
The scientific method is Observation ==> Hypthothesis ==> Experiment =-> Results ==> Theory ..... I didn't conduct any experiments here.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU6bosBN...
For those interested in a demonstration of how the infrared / bar coded cards methodology works ...... this is the video that explains it.
It really only requires a single unscrupulous insider who can recruit a player accomplice.
For those who want to assert that casino security eliminates this risk .... I'd like to learn details about those security measures.
I know how you should approach this
Stop playing with the guy.
Definitely felt like I played in a cheated home game for a while. Too many suspicious cold decks, and more likely the result of a card mechanic. I just paid for my losses and moved on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bU6bosBN...For those interested in a demonstration of how the infrared / bar coded cards methodology works ...... this is the video that explains it. It really only requires a single unscrupulous insider who can recruit a player accomplice. For those who want to assert that casino security eliminates this risk .... I'd like to learn details about
Part of good security is to not unnecessarily share details. You have yet to explain how you get a bar coded deck that also matches the custom design into play. Casinos control their decks well. Not easy even for insider to replace a deck. Much less multiple decks
Then how go you get that deck to follow you from table to table in a MTT.
I don't think that's necessarily a fair assessment. I have acknowledged that I didn't understand the difference between RFID and the infrared bar code reading that was demonstrated at defcon in 2016. In order for the infrared scheme to work, all it takes is one entrepreneurial casino employee who has access to the decks and responsibility for assigning them at the outset of the
Good luck sending out those decks. The inventory of decks isn’t just sitting there.
As to assigning these decks you fail to account for random table assignment. Also how do you get them to follow your player as the player gets moved? Also since your player has significant advantage, wouldn’t he knock out others quicker? Doe#nt that mean his table likely to break sooner? Then the coded deck gets left behind.
Btw you were well past hypothesis. You had already concluded that player was cheating. You did this with no experiments but you still did so.
Yes you did FINALLY accept you were uninformed on RFID but you still continue to bring it up as cheating method
I think a large ingredient of my hunch is the capability of any player outcomes to be so consistently well above average in a turbo event which lasts 7-8 hrs with 20 minute levels. Success in such an event usually boils down to really good results in 4-5 key hands. Flopping a set vs a big overpair, AA v KK or QQ type situations or two player both making trips or a flush. Comple
I'm not sure why you jumped to the conclusion that technology needs to be involved at all (assuming he really is cheating). There's like a 100 y/o book called, The Expert at the Card Table, which is all about sleight of hand. It's a pretty eye-opening read.
I'm pretty sure I've just played a superuser on coinpoker
CoinPoker Hand #329791440: Hold'em No Limit (5/10 ante 1) 2025/11/18 02:07:56 GMT
Table 'NL ₮1,000 II' 7-max Seat #4 is the button
Seat 1: JoeBlackjack (1885.45 in chips)
Seat 2: Twisted134 (1395.05 in chips)
Seat 3: rp2050 (866.9 in chips)
Seat 4: tcblade (3065.98 in chips)
Seat 5: PrimordialAA (1720.06 in chips)
Seat 6: Jarretfan (1920.5 in chips)
Seat 7: Darks1de (1000 in chips)
PrimordialAA: posts the ante 1
Jarretfan: posts the ante 1
Darks1de: posts the ante 1
JoeBlackjack: posts the ante 1
Twisted134: posts the ante 1
rp2050: posts the ante 1
tcblade: posts the ante 1
PrimordialAA: posts small blind 5
Jarretfan: posts big blind 10
*** HOLE CARDS ***
Dealt to tcblade [Tc Ts]
Darks1de: folds
JoeBlackjack: folds
Twisted134: raises 15 to 25
rp2050: calls 25
tcblade: raises 85 to 110
PrimordialAA: folds
Jarretfan: folds
Twisted134: calls 85
rp2050: calls 85
*** FLOP *** [8h 3d 2s]
Twisted134: checks
rp2050: bets 170
tcblade: raises 170 to 340
Twisted134: folds
rp2050: raises 585.9 and is all-in
tcblade: calls 415.9
*** TURN *** [8h 3d 2s] [6d]
*** RIVER *** [8h 3d 2s 6d] [9h]
*** SHOW DOWN ***
rp2050: shows [Th 7c] (a straight, Ten high)
tcblade: shows [Tc Ts] (a pair of Tens)
rp2050 collected 1857.8 from pot
rp2050 said, "😀"
*** SUMMARY ***
Total pot 1863.8 | CC 6
Board [ 8h 3d 2s 6d 9h ]
Game ended: 2025/11/18 02:09:29 GMT
Seat 1: JoeBlackjack folded before Flop
Seat 2: Twisted134 folded on the Flop
Seat 3: rp2050 showed [Th 7c] and won (1857.8) with a straight, Ten high
Seat 4: tcblade (button) showed [Tc Ts]
Seat 5: PrimordialAA (small blind) folded before Flop
Seat 6: Jarretfan (big blind) folded before Flop
Seat 7: Darks1de folded before Flop
*** RNG ***
phrase: Poker is fun for everyone!
cards: (8h) (3d) (2s) (6d) (9h) Qs Kc Ks 3h 5c 2c 5d 9s 6h 6c 9d Ah 8d Js Ad Qd 3s Jd 7s 8c Kd Qc 4d 7d Qh As Ac 4s 3c XX XX XX XX
player_cards: 3 Tc Ts
