GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
I really dont understand why anybody who's not being disingenuous would try that argument. But the reality is, lebron is quite possibly the greatest athlete to ever live. Of course he'd be better in his later years. His game is to drive to the lane like a bulldozer and get layups.
Ill also admit he has become a much better 3 point shooter as hes aged. Good for him
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Thread Cliffs
Lebron's title runs only required 25-29 ppg and a teammate nearly matching him, while Jordan's titles required 32-36 ppg and carrying the scoring load/defensive attention.
In addition to needing more scoring help (star help), Lebron also needed greater teamwork/team assists than the opponent to win a series, while MJ carried the Bulls in series with less teamwork/team assists all the time..
Accordingly, Jordan had true carry-jobs, aka no scoring help and less teamwork than the opponent, while Lebron needed massive scoring help and greater teamwork to win playoff series.
Historically, when one guy gets 35 ppg and the next guy barely gets 20, that's considered a "carry-job" and it was common knowledge in the 90's that Jordan carried the Bulls.. New fans have changed history so that the 90's Bulls are considered "stacked" despite having the weakest roster in the league from the 3 thru 12 spots and having the lowest-scoring casts ever for a champion
I love how LeBron's age 41 season and Jordan's age 39 season conveniently both become age 40 seasons.
Jordan had no age 40 season. LeBron finished 6th in MVP voting at age 40.
MVP voting means exactly zero... Nothing.. It's the opinion of Rachel Nichols and Skip Bayless
Literally
Following the media and watching the coverage has given you a distorted idea of the NBA that's inaccurate.. Following that stuff is like following WWE wrestling - it's fake - they don't know what they're talking about.
The truth is that Lebron wasn't a top 40 player last season.. He was a massive negative stat-padder whose presence destroyed Reaves' performance and didn't fit with Luka, so they were upset in the 1st Round.. I'm glad the Lakers aren't letting him destroy the team again this year although he did last game against the Suns... Any game where he plays more than 20 minutes will drastically hurt the Lakers chance to win..
He's a massive cancer that doesn't move on either side of the ball. You guys are just too dumb about basketball so you don't think it matters that he doesn't move.. Again, you guys actually listen and absorb the coverage, so you've bought the charade for the last 5 years that Lebron is still good despite 5 straight playoff catastrophies..
MJ played 30 games (12 wins 18 losses). Was 22/7/3 on less than 50% eFG.
For comparison. The first 30 games LeBron played after 40 he was 26/9/8 on over 60% eFG. He was 21-9.
Jordan was never a trashy role player like Lebron is now - he was never anywhere near this bad.. Jordan had goat IQ off-ball and would average 20 alongside Luka/Reaves - he wouldn't have to suck like Lebron currently does.. LeDumb just stands there because he lacks hoops IQ
The Lakers underachieved for the last 5 seasons because they let Lebron stat-pad - that's why his numbers mean nothing - the Lakers should've shut him down 5 years ago and Lebron should've been a 15 ppg guy a long time ago... So his numbers mean nothing - he's the only old guy that was allowed to stat-pad over trying to win.. They let him bring his son on the team for goodness sake, so that proves the Lakers are about letting Lebron stat-pad and save face over winning - the numbers are meaningless..
I really dont understand why anybody who's not being disingenuous would try that argument. But the reality is, lebron is quite possibly the greatest athlete to ever live. Of course he'd be better in his later years. His game is to drive to the lane like a bulldozer and get layups.
Ill also admit he has become a much better 3 point shooter as hes aged. Good for him
Lebron is like a Blake Griffin that can dribble, or a little more athletic than Karl Malone - this is less athletic than Shaq, Wilt, MJ, Giannis, Kemp and others.
Ultimately, he didn't have to dominate like MJ to win because he didn't have to average 35 while the next guy barely averages 20 - Lebron won by averaging 25,-29 and having teammates nearly match him... In addition to needing more scoring help/star help, Lebron also needed a team assist/teamwork advantage in every series that he won, while Jordan carried teams that had no scoring help and less team assists
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CAREER FINALS
Jordan...... 34 on 48%
Pippen..... 19 on 42%
^^^ Carry-job
Lebron..... 28 on 49%
Kyrie......... 28 on 47%
AD............. 25 on 55%
Wade........ 24 on 48%
^^^ NOT carry-jobs
In addition to needing less scoring help, Jordan won many series with less team assists/teamwork than the opponent, while Lebron needed more team assists/teamwork then the opponent to win a series (and far more scoring help)
Magic is #1 in career APG
Jordan is #1 in PPG
And other guys have RPG, BPG and SPG (jordan is close in SPG)
so Lebron isn't anywhere near #1 in any category - he isn't anywhere near the best at anything in basketball.
Accordingly, it's fraud to use career totals to make Lebron appear #1 or close in various categories, since the per game stats show that he's nowhere near #1 in any category of basketball.. He's an obvious fraud that uses career totals to mask his low peak.
Also let the record show that no one has tried to make a case for Lebron's peak, which isn't top 10, let alone the best ever like Jordan's..
Lebron only needed 25 on 52 TS to win the 13' Finals, while a teammate averaged only 5 less and another teammate forced Game 7... This isn't dominant.. Lebron averaged 16 on 39% to get a 1-2 deficit, while his 23 on 43% was insufficient thru 6 games and required a teammate to force Game 7..
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The Heat also didn't win with Lebron on the floor in that series (zero plus minus) and were actually outplayed (negative net rating).. Lebron had a bad series but still won.
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Series that Lebron lost with the better roster on-paper/preseason favorite, or series favorite, or due to getting locked up:
1) 09' ECF (-700 favorite vs injured opponent)
2) 2008 ECSF (26 on 35% and 5 TO's, yet still nearly won in 7 games)
3) 10' ECSF (-500 favorite - the goat meltdown)
4) 14' Finals (preseason favorite)
5) 21' First Round (preseason favorite)
6) 11' Finals (preseason favorite)
7) 24' 1st Round
8) 23' WCF
9) 25' 1st Round
Lebron had a record 6 straight preseason favorites from 11' to 16' (the previous record was 3 straight)
The Lakers will get destroyed by every good team if Lebron plays more than 20 minutes - he's an absolute cancer
Btw, mods please remove the "LeBron > Jordan" line from under my name and delete any other fake posts that you put itt
Lebron isn't in my top 10 and I've proven exactly why many times.. Ball-dominance looks cool but it isn't a winning skillset and underachieves roster talent more than any other skillset.
Many fathers around the world use Lebron as an example of what they DON'T want their sons to be, aka colluder, short-cutter, flopper, whiner, load manager, cheater - they literally point at Lebron and say "don't be like that guy"
Yeah that's the biggest fear most dad's have in today's world.
I guess that's why LeBron failed so hard in life. He had no father.
When Lebron entered the league, no one expected him to give up after Year 7 and team up with opponents thereafter.
Objectively, this was a failure of expectation, and a massive one.. He simply failed.
There's no way around this... He gave up on a 62-win organic juggernaut that had the reputed defense and long-standing chemistry to beat the Mavs in 2011 (remember that defense and chemistry is what the Heat lacked).
Winning with Cleveland in 2011 and then a few more rings would've been goat because it was done with a thin roster where he was far above all teammates - this is like Jordan's teams, but maybe even more so.
Unfortunately, Lebron quit and joined Dwayne frieking Wade and a 3rd option that was better than Pau (Kobe's 2nd option).. No one in 2006 would've believed that the historically dominant FMVP Wade would join Lebron a few years later - NO ONE would've believed that and everyone would've said it was super-weak, fake and a joke
In addition to failing by doing the decision, Lebron's upset losses and meltdowns in 09' and 10' were failures that caused the decision to start teaming up.. Then he failed again in the 11' Finals, 14' Finals, and many record losses, sweep losses and lotteries throughout the years despite having preseason favorites and all-star teammates..
It's quite a sad record of roster underachieving and failure.. Heck, there's the Westbrook debacle or the "playoff mode activated" in 2019, or ragdolled by Nuggets and Wolves - so many failures to choose from..
Having now read all 1097 pages of this thread it has never been clearer that LeBron > MJ. Thanks all.
Wow, this is getting intense anti-LeBron. Near hysterical levels.
Tonight he was lauded for his great roundball IQ and for "always doing the right thing" for dishing to a 3-pt. shooter in a tie game with a few seconds left. LeBron took a pass about 3 feet beyond the arc above the top of the key with 4 seconds left, uncannily, with nobody within 15 feet of him. He has an uncontested 3, or a full momentum drive to the hoop for the win. Obviously, getting fouled there is a huge winning move, and of course he has the benefit of the whistle. Instead of one of these two obvious options, he drives halfway to the hoop and dishes to the corner.
To me, that seems like his brains fell out of his head onto the floor. But in the telling of it, it is just him "always doing the right thing" yet again (because the guy makes the 3). LOL. Admittedly he doesnt have much confidence in his shot right now, so the drive is the smart play. 50-something % chance to finish, 25% chance for foul or so, and and 80-something % chance or so of hitting one of the two for the win.
Instead, dish to corner for 25-footer. Tie score. Dumb, dumb?? Or genius level basketball?
See, what you guys don't understand is that "getting old" happens overnight and no one ever sees it coming.
It's over guys.. And he isnt even 41 yet!!! He's done at 40 lol
and he lacks the shooting touch like MJ, Kobe and Curry - they're so much better than Lebron
He scored 8 more points tonight than MJ did in his entire age 41 season. 8ppg more, infinity ppg% more.
Checkmate.
This is great - Lebron is completely WASHED at 40 - before his 41st birthday - and he's never had real scoring ability so it's getting ugly.
What an horrible shot that opponents exploited for 23 years and excellently held him to only 4 titles (3 as 1st option) despite his team-ups with 6 other franchise players, aka Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love, AD, Luka - that's 6 guys who were considered franchise players with their own team building around them at the time Lebron joined them - this is unprecedented help (the most ever by far.).
Imagine if Jordan teamed up with Bird (Luka), Robinson (AD), KJ (Kyrie), McHale (Love), Drexler (Wade), Derrick Coleman (Bosh), Dale Ellis (Allen), Reggie Lewis (Ingram), and much more ...
but only had 4 chips (3 as first option)?!! lol.. It's called fraud, aka LeFraud
Luka is a high-scoring primary ball-handler (ball-dominator) just like Lebron.
So he turns everyone into spot-up shooter (bad chemistry), thereby requiring more help.. Unfortunately, the bad chemistry prevents a great team REGARDLESS of cast.
Btw, Reaves is lucky that he already had 5 years to develop alongside a big assist target like AD before Luka arrived - Luka was gifted a ready-made star.
Imagine thinking you won an argument by saying a player isn't great at the age of 41.
I won the argument because I showed that Jordan is infinitely better at basketball than Lebron.
Jordan never underachieved a roster, while Lebron virtually always did.
Let that sink in - Lebron underachieved every roster for 23 years.. He entered the league with the East all-star center on his team, but was still lottery for 2 years.. His skillset turns everyone into spot-up shooter, so he never achieved sophisticated brand of ball like his opponents (Spurs, Warriors, Nuggets, Mavs), and he never developed a single young player.. No one plays to capacity alongside him, so none of his teams live up to their potential (can't produce great teams).
In addition to never underachieving a roster, Jordan's titles were carry-jobs and Lebron's weren't.. Specifically, Jordan won titles by averaging 35 and the next guy barely averages 20 (6 carry-jobs), while Lebron won by averaging 25-29 and having teammates nearly match him... In addition to needing more scoring help/star help, Lebron also needed a team assist/teamwork advantage in every series that he won, while Jordan carried teams that had no scoring help and less team assists
Imagine if Jordan teamed up with Bird (Luka), Robinson (AD), KJ (Kyrie), McHale (Love), Drexler (Wade), Derrick Coleman (Bosh), Dale Ellis (Allen), Reggie Lewis (Ingram), and much more ...
but only had 4 chips (3 as first option)?!! lol.. It's called fraud, aka LeFraud
