Aria (Las Vegas, NV)
Hello Two Plus Two Community!
My name is Kat, I am the Poker Host for the Aria Poker Room, I am starting this thread to p
The only way to fix the issue is to ban straddles at 5 5 10 like they did in Florida and / or add a 2 2 5 game that also allows straddles. The pros there know that their hourly rate goes up currently with a straddle. If it's 5 5 10 the rate goes down compared to 5 5 10 20. IMOThe regulars there will exploit the situation to their advantage as long as it exists as it's curre
The solution is you throw the rock in the garbage where it belongs. It's truly one of the dumbest things I've ever seen in poker.
Lol@ anyone making 250-400 an hour in that game.
Nobody is making close to that long term.
Cutting the stakes in half doesn't cut win rate in half when the game gets much softer.
I'll chime in as a semi-regular who has 2500 hours at the Aria rock game.
I've never been fan of the rock and thought it was a kind of a silly concept but I've learned to live with it. I also guess one slight benefit of it is that it changes up the game slightly so that it's not a straight 5/10 PLO game where you can study every spot in a solver. The rock being thrown in there throws off the game slightly and I think small variations like this in any poker format in a solver era is probably better for the health of the game.
I am indifferent about straddles, and I will straddle as long as the rest of the table will do it. I don't like the social pressure that seems to always pop up when someone doesn't want to straddle. I think a large part of the straddle culture at aria is that it's been on for so long, that its more about the regs not wanting to cut their relative stakes in half rather than actually liking the straddle for the concept of being a straddle. Since it's on every day, if it's suddenly not on, you go from playing 10/20 for months and randomly you feel like being forced to play 5/10.
What I absolutely despise is the combination of straddle + rock. It's just completely unfair to the player left of a high VPIP player and they just get completely whacked on overpaying their fair shares of straddles. Lots of players just leave a death seat (as I call it), or try to play musical chair hopping because of it.
Also, no one is making 200+/hr over realistic sample sizes in those games lol. I used to be one of the highest win rate regs in that game at around $175/hr but that was years back when everyone was terrible and the games had way more fish/whales. Nowadays I think anyone making ~$100/hr in that game is absolutely crushing it assuming no game selection. The games have gotten far reg heavier and both fish and regs have improved significantly. The assumption that if the straddle is on, the win rate doubles due to doubling stakes is incorrect. I find that win rates is more a function of effective stack sizes rather than the blind sizes and since the max buy in is capped at $2k, and many people still buy in less than that or short buy, the winrate increase from a $20 straddle is not anywhere near as significant as you probably suspect.
I'll chime in as a semi-regular who has 2500 hours at the Aria rock game. I've never been fan of the rock and thought it was a kind of a silly concept but I've learned to live with it. I also guess one slight benefit of it is that it changes up the game slightly so that it's not a straight 5/10 PLO game where you can study every spot in a solver. The rock being thrown in ther
Spot on, as well as the comment that Vegas PLO is some of the toughest in the country. I have played all over and by far the day to day PLO game in Vegas outside of series is hard work.
I'll chime in as a semi-regular who has 2500 hours at the Aria rock game. I've never been fan of the rock and thought it was a kind of a silly concept but I've learned to live with it. I also guess one slight benefit of it is that it changes up the game slightly so that it's not a straight 5/10 PLO game where you can study every spot in a solver. The rock being thrown in ther
I love playing at aria.
I think the straddle and rock go alright together that way if someone gets up and take a break it won’t throw off the straddle since they don’t know ahead of time they would be missing their straddle and it’s optional
Yeah I’d there’s an action player on your right you will pay extra straddles. But that can also be exploited
I’m gonna say id someone makes 150 with the straddle they might make 100 without it.
The straddle was probably a gold mine when they first started it but it also has probably attracted a lot more tough competition since it’s turned it into a bigger game at this point
I don’t think it’s really that tough of a game. They have some good players but also plenty of recreational players who play.
I don’t usually hear complaints about the rock or the straddle. Most people seem to like the setup. That’s why it’s still there
I'll chime in as a semi-regular who has 2500 hours at the Aria rock game. I've never been fan of the rock and thought it was a kind of a silly concept but I've learned to live with it. I also guess one slight benefit of it is that it changes up the game slightly so that it's not a straight 5/10 PLO game where you can study every spot in a solver. The rock being thrown in ther
Very good post. If you're the Asian guy who was posting YouTube videos a couple years ago from these games I played with you a handful of times and I believe you were one of the bigger winners and you numbers sound very realistic both several years ago and today.
Also agree on the death seat hopping.
I actually do like variations in games that people have to figure out but this one does way more harm than good.
I'm in the market for a new car. I'm considering electric for the first time—sorry for being a total noob about this.
Does Aria have free charging stations if you're NOT a hotel guest? I'm MGM gold and get free parking if that matters.
If charging at Aria is free and I'm there 20 hours per week, does that mean I never have to pay for fuel?
I'm in the market for a new car. I'm considering electric for the first time—sorry for being a total noob about this.
Does Aria have free charging stations if you're NOT a hotel guest? I'm MGM gold and get free parking if that matters.
If charging at Aria is free and I'm there 20 hours per week, does that mean I never have to pay for fuel?
YMMV. It's free. But there are only four parking spots. There are almost always four Teslas in those spots (they're not even charging!). Sometimes the charging stations are malfunctioned.
I wouldn't bank on getting "free" fuel for the life of your car.
What I absolutely despise is the combination of straddle + rock. It's just completely unfair to the player left of a high VPIP player and they just get completely whacked on overpaying their fair shares of straddles. Lots of players just leave a death seat (as I call it), or try to play musical chair hopping because of it.
Allow button straddles at Aria. Fixes this at 5/5/rock (also makes 1/2 a lot better).
Allow button straddles at Aria. Fixes this at 5/5/rock (also makes 1/2 a lot better).
I don't play at Aria, but I still have to disagree. I think button straddles are truly awful for the game. It forces the blinds to play extra tight. If your game is playing tight, and is all tough players, adding a button straddle won't loosen it up. It will make it play even tighter. And if the game is loose and juicy with plenty of action, you don't need a button straddle to loosen it up anyway.
Sb straddle and if SB is rock BB instead would be the best for the game and solve the whole rock death seat straddle issue. Though it would make the game play closer to normal in which case why not just get rid of the rock. I assume they just like it how it is
Does anyone dislike when regulars are constantly showing hole cards to their neighbors during or after hands?
I've never seen a dealer say a word about it.
Also, prop bets taking place about their hole cards. I don't like the prop bets because they are discussing in code during the hand what they had and sometimes even holding their cards.
Given that we have established it's a big game, I wish the staff would inform the dealers to enforce those rules.
Spot on, as well as the comment that Vegas PLO is some of the toughest in the country. I have played all over and by far the day to day PLO game in Vegas outside of series is hard work.
For me, dealing with some of the toxic regulars in Vegas PLO games is probably the hardest "work" that I have to do when it comes to the crushing the games.
Actually, the games are tougher during the WSOP than the rest of the year from what I know.
Unless during the main events for PLO and NL
I don't play at Aria, but I still have to disagree. I think button straddles are truly awful for the game. It forces the blinds to play extra tight. If your game is playing tight, and is all tough players, adding a button straddle won't loosen it up. It will make it play even tighter. And if the game is loose and juicy with plenty of action, you don't need a button straddl
HI Fossil Man!
I've heard this argument from a theory standpoint but in practice button straddles can be great games.
"And if the game is loose and juicy with plenty of action, you don't need a button straddle to loosen it up anyway."
If they overcalling the blinds having button straddle can be good.
I agree if it's tight table it won't help.
As others have mentioned, a lot of the problem is the false advertising that comes with 5/5/rock. Many bigger PLO games around the country come with a gentleman's agreement to straddle. 5/5 is typically 5/5/10.
Recs come to Aria thinking it's 5/5/10. But it's 5/5/10/20. $5,000 isn't enough for one session.
They drop down to 1/2. They straddle to try to play bigger. But no one else is straddling. Some stacks in that game barely move up or down more than $100 in a whole session.
You have to choose either $1–2k variance or $10–20k variance. There's nothing in between.
So strip PLO at Aria into three games:
High-stakes 5/10 (or 10/10), $400–2,000 buy-in (or $500–3,000), everyone agrees to straddle, and you don't have the dumb rock
Mid-stakes 2/5 (or 5/5), $200–1,000 buy-in (or $300–1,500), everyone agrees to straddle, it's bigger than 1/2
Low-stakes 1/2 (or 1/3), $100–500 buy-in, $5 bring in, it's for the firm non-straddlers
It's actually amazing that I've had several regs tell me how this "false advertising" is good for the game. They've told me when you try to get a 10/10 game it won't go. Yes bc rec players mostly don't want to play it knowing it's really 10/10/20 (players are used to straddle especially plo). Opens being over 5x the entry level game one stake below isn't inviting new players to
A random fish tourist comes in at 3 am and doesn't want to straddle. He's berated by a dumb non regular nit tourist, who insults the guy very harshly. Then this person who berates the tourist, calls the floor over and asks if they can turn the game into a 5 5 10 20. They said it's not allowed. It's either 1/2, 5 5 (optional straddle), or 25 25.
As others have mentioned, a lot of the problem is the false advertising that comes with 5/5/rock. Many bigger PLO games around the country come with a gentleman's agreement to straddle. 5/5 is typically 5/5/10.Recs come to Aria thinking it's 5/5/10. But it's 5/5/10/20. $5,000 isn't enough for one session.They drop down to 1/2. They straddle to try to play bigger. But no one els
As I said earlier, Florida has this figured out. 2 2 5, 5 5 10, 10 10 25, 25 25 50. No straddles allowed. Occasionally at night or even daytime the table will go blind raises, but it's never a pressure situation like I see in Vegas.
I also said that the 10 10 won't run consistently because the buy -ins are higher and not everybody wants to play that big.
While I have heard some people who don't like the straddle at Aria, I haven't heard anyone complaining about the rock.
The way it's set up now, we can play 5 5 10 20 every day. It's the most consistent game in the country for 5 5 10 20 PLO.
I would suggest if people wanted 2/5 PLO or 5 5 10, to go to Florida or Texas, as is. It took me awhile to realize how this is set up across the U.S. I wasn't aware of this until I travelled all over. You're Welcome!
Played for 2 weeks at almost only Aria plo games in November.
The 1/2 was fun and plenty of value. Played big enough when the straddle was on, but was plagued with local hit n run merchants, but then so was every small game i ever seen in town over the last 20 years and countless visits.
Would have played 5/5/10 loads more had it been that, the 20 straddle with the rock was a bit weird. 5/5/10 a perfect size game for me and im sure plenty others. Would love to see 5/10 with 20 rock and not forced straddle by the players.
Prefer just 3 blind game personally, feel like the rock gimic isnt needed at 5/10+ and just make it a bigger game, plenty of players for 5/10+
Either way, great experiance at Aria, dealers were brilliant, service great, and is truely the home of PLO in vegas.
As others have mentioned, a lot of the problem is the false advertising that comes with 5/5/rock. Many bigger PLO games around the country come with a gentleman's agreement to straddle. 5/5 is typically 5/5/10.Recs come to Aria thinking it's 5/5/10. But it's 5/5/10/20. $5,000 isn't enough for one session.They drop down to 1/2. They straddle to try to play bigger. But no one els
This sums it up so well.
It's actually amazing how a lot of people in 1/2 really don't have their stack go up or down more than 100 bucks.
There really is no "in between" game.
As I said earlier, Florida has this figured out. 2 2 5, 5 5 10, 10 10 25, 25 25 50. No straddles allowed. Occasionally at night or even daytime the table will go blind raises, but it's never a pressure situation like I see in Vegas.I also said that the 10 10 won't run consistently because the buy -ins are higher and not everybody wants to play that big.While I have heard so
People don't complain about it bc they don't understand how bad it is for the game. It's disproportionately in position. Additionally a lot of short stacking nits loved it especially before the 20 was standard bc they can pay ten bucks a ound , wait for aces or some other super premium and basically get their entire stack in pre. Even now they can sit to the left of some other nit, almost never pay the 20 and get value on their good hands that they don't deserve.
Imagine if instead of everyone getting the BB once a round one guy got it 4 times and a few got it twice. Everyone would say that's absurd but here we are.
At least 90 percent of Vegas regs don't have even a slight clue as to what leads to a good game in general.
I did notice a lot of them have switched from green tea to mint tea lately so they are really starting to live on the edge.
Played for 2 weeks at almost only Aria plo games in November.The 1/2 was fun and plenty of value. Played big enough when the straddle was on, but was plagued with local hit n run merchants, but then so was every small game i ever seen in town over the last 20 years and countless visits.Would have played 5/5/10 loads more had it been that, the 20 straddle with the rock was a bit
Sounds like you had a great trip. I personally hate the 1/2 game there because the structure encourages super tight play and rewards it very highly. I've played it maybe 10 times and never had a table where everybody was straddling. It was actually cool that people straddled when it wasn't mandatory though, which was a true straddle is from my perspective. Mandatory straddles at 5 5 could be fun if you like to straddle every hand and want everyone to do it. That's how they roll in Vegas. The main games get deep usually so don't worry about the 400 buy-ins. The guys that complain about some guy on their right winning too many pots and that they had to straddle "3 times in a row" are usually the absolute biggest nits in the poker room.
It was actually cool that people straddled when it wasn't mandatory though, which was a true straddle is from my perspective.
If it's mandatory, it is NOT a straddle. It is a blind. By definition a straddle is always optional.
I have seen many games where when a new player sits, they are told the straddle is mandatory, even though it is not. I think this is bad for keeping truly recreational players coming back. Because in many cases, this person came to play 1, 2 or 5, 5 or whatever the game is. But if the straddle is mandatory, the game is now at least double the size of what they expected. If they are recs who play often, they know about this. But the casual rec in LV for a convention is going to get burned too quick, and never come back to that game.
If it's mandatory, it is NOT a straddle. It is a blind. By definition a straddle is always optional.I have seen many games where when a new player sits, they are told the straddle is mandatory, even though it is not. I think this is bad for keeping truly recreational players coming back. Because in many cases, this person came to play 1, 2 or 5, 5 or whatever the game is.
A number of people in this thread seem to be in agreement about the straddles at Aria. The floor / and the board tell you one thing, but when people sit in the game, they are told something different by the players.
Has anyone determined who has decision making capabilities at Aria to make any changes?
They don't seem to have any plans to change anything as far as I know.
A number of people in this thread seem to be in agreement about the straddles at Aria. The floor / and the board tell you one thing, but when people sit in the game, they are told something different by the players.
Has anyone determined who has decision making capabilities at Aria to make any changes?
They don't seem to have any plans to change anything as far as I know.
I doubt they change anything since they get a game every day. Wynn really should go for a game above 1/2 but below 5/5/10/20 since outside of tournament series they don't get 5/5 rock every day.
