Ongoing VP TR, PART 2!

Thanks for the craps tips there Leon

My go to advice would be if you are pressing try and play with house money as quickly as possible. When I am not low on confidence at a table I try and go heavy to start. $25 pass line with odds and then $520-$540 across ($100 a number). The aim this way is to hit twice, pull down to $25 a number ($30 on 6 and 8) and press to the moon when the roll is good. Obviously the down side to this way is the motherf*ing tilting PSOs.

Going to move up from quarters to $5 now? :-)

I've only seen the 10x + 10x once in my life, and the deal was 4 to a royal. Missed everything of course.

I've never gotten a dealt royal, or dealt quads.

Meh, it's law now. Congress would have to pass a bill to remove it, which seem unlikely.

Does AZ have real craps with dice? Or bubble craps?

Very interesting, I have never seen a 20X before other than the 20x drawn Royal on the interwebs a few times.

Most I have ever personally been awarded is 14X and drew bupkis..

I must have seen you post this at least 20 times. If you haven't gotten dealt quads (1 in 4000 on avg), that simply means you haven't put much volume in at all. Getting 20x and 4 to royal dealt despite never having had dealt quads is the super rare event.

This is already making the Vegas local news rounds. My brother texted me about it and he doesn't play at all. Kinda makes the total carnage the machines inflicted on me last weekend sting that much more.

Spoiler alert- I went. They killed my trip bankroll, my soul and my hope. I hate video poker so much right now. I'll post more later, it'll be the TR that never was.

Damn, I created a monster…

You can find cheaper games at places like Orleans or Gold Coast. Unlike poker, it seems like craps dealers are good everywhere. You'll want to move up to places like Horseshoe as quickly as you can because you'll want to stay there more, so you want to earn comps in the CET system.

We need to talk a craps expert into putting on a seminar and teaching a bunch of us live. One good thing is you don't have to learn a bunch of math because you can just tell the dealer "press it" and they'll figure it out for you.

The last thing I want to do is give CET any action. All my action will be at MGM and will always be unless something changes drastically. My comps over there with the same amount of play is absolutely ridiculous compared to MGM.

The Phoenix big 3 poker rooms definitely have it - Talking Stick, Lone Butte and Desert Diamond West Valley all have real craps, and stadium craps at TS and LB for sure. No bubble craps, no press the button.

345x odds (saw LB might go 10x on random weekday?) Feels like the same odds/pays/games (All Tall Small, etc) I play in LV.

The TR that never was

Well.. got in Thurs night. Got drilled right from the get go and it never let up. By Fri morning I was stuck 30k and miserable. Obv at some point tilt set in and I went in for more than I should. I kind of mentally knew I wasn't going to post when I went to Joel Robuchon on Fri night and didn't take any pics.

Everything I played was a disaster. Perhaps most tilting, I was very OVER-aced this trip. I was dealt trip aces twice in the first 100 hands- obv blanked everything. I ended up getting dealt trip aces 30 times in 10000 hands which is way over expectation. However, I ran so far under expectation that it ends up being just another frustrating, maddening data point. Dice was similarly awful- no exaggeration, EVERY table I started out with a point-seven out as soon as I walked up.

The Wynn was super-crowded all weekend, filled with a bunch of cowboy hats (I'm ok with that), a bunch of redneck conservative conversation (way less ok with that), and just generally tilting all around. In retrospect, this weekend was a constant challenge to NOT be on tilt.

So... yeah. Sorry no TR, but I don't have any pics beyond Fri anyways. Lost 50k.

On to craps-

Since 2026 on I'll be a dice player, I'm already trying to decide how I'm going to log my data. I'm thinking- starting roll, ending roll, number of sessions, results of each session, and other notables (biggest bet, longest run etc). Is there any other data people want to see or think I should record? My wife suggested I start keeping track of ALL expenses just to get a true sense of how things are going- money I'm tipping, flights etc. Could be an interesting exercise and it would truly paint the picture of what each trip costs vs a close, but imprecise estimate.

I'm kind of looking forward to it, but I'm really sick of Vegas and gambling in general right now, and dice was so unfun this last trip I don't know what I'm going to do on a future bad trip. There's nothing else to play that isn't a worse game, more tilt inducing, or both.

would enjoy reading dice trips from a happy leon, and all the extra expenses your wife mentions would be fun to know.

Sorry for the nasty end to the year Leon

Will you/do you play craps at Barona?

Have you played Ultimate Texas Holdem? Not sure what the house edge is in that but I found it enjoyable in that it was a fun poker variant and you don’t have to deal with annoying poker players as you would in the poker room.

It also helped that I went on a sunrun last month that was equivalent to a 45 minute dice roll..��

Sorry to hear Leon, that sucks. I like the idea of keeping track of everything, that’s what I’m doing for 2026 as well but for other reasons. I will still degen a bit on various games but I will try to keep my Vegas trips and poker to at least a semi-professional level. More on that later in my next TR, don’t want to hijack your thread with boring details.

How much more work or less fun do you think would it be to track everything? I get the sense that you would be capable of logging every dice roll and reconstructing with perhaps a few pictures tossed in for reference and trip reports. It would make for better objective analysis, which could be good or bad of course.

Would love to know how many shooters you get through each session. What you are in for and what you are out for each session.

As much as it would be nice to know how many rolls you get each shooter that is too much of an ask to record. Oh and totally with you how tilting those PSO sessions are. Do you ever consider the don't pass at times? I know when I have the craps gods look down at me and give me a 7 on the come out.

Friend of mine won 25 grand playing the massively -ev prop bets on that game.

Way back in the day. I started off with craps and blackjack at Barona. Moved to Viejas when I realized they have 10x odds. Moved back to Barona when I started playing VP and realized Barona has the best paytables in the country.

I can't play craps at Barona currently. They take the vig on 4 and 10 as soon as you make the bet. That and the "card craps" situation is going to be untenable. I suspect I'll be visiting a local casino little to never now, and if I do it'll be with better odds. Now that I think about it, it's the end of Barona for the foreseeable future as well.

Never. When I first heard of the game, I kept an eye out and could never find more than 1-2 tables at any given casino and they were always crowded.

Since the basic premise of most craps strat seems to be pressing, that doesn't happen much on the don't side because a seven out means the shooter loses the dice. Although I got on a roll once where I rolled 5 craps in a row. I lost all the money I had on the table and had to go into my wallet for more cash. That amused one of the dealers to no end.

I get this a bunch of times, especially playing roulette both online and live. Play 0 sections, hits 0 section. Press zero section, lands tier. Okay, switch to tier, it lands zero section. Last trip during a session at the Bellagio the pit boss and the dealer were laughing at me because no matter what I bet it always landed opposite. I stay tier it lands zero, I decide to switch then back to tier. Obviously it doesn’t really matter, but gambling gods can be really annoying.