Should hero call a jam with bottom two in this super unusual spot?
Lively 9-handed €1/€2 home game, round of each - Texas and PLO.
PREFLOP
Hero (€700) straddles the button to €5, villain (
Focus on process, not results.
Play hands of cards, win some, lose some, fold some
FWIW I wouldn't think of this as an angle. Even if V knew H was still to act and intentionally called KK out of turn. At worst I'd put it in the same category as giving off fake tells.
Also think the rule would be bad, V already gets punished by the rules in a couple of ways by playing out of turn (Eg. forced to overcall).
Most often, it's just an honest mistake, and if I'm in the hand, I wouldn't demand that his $15 stay in the pot if it seemed like it was indeed an honest mistake.
When he calls out of turn, and then raises, I can't help but wonder if he may have been angling. Even if it's unintentional, I think there could be value in a rule that says he can't re-raise after initially calling, he can only fold to hero's raise, or call, if only to prevent heated confrontations breaking out.
Hard to see how V gets punished if he's allowed to fake-call, then re-raise. He gets to induce action in front, and then profit from the deception.
If he did this in a home game, at a minimum, he wouldn't be invited back, and could risk a beat-down. It seems like the sort of thing anglers do in card rooms because they know security is there to protect them.
So I eventually decided I couldn't let this one go, and called. Villain had K♣K♦.Ironically enough, a six came on the turn, so I made a full house. If I had decided to call on the flop, I would have lost my stack anyway. The only way I can avoid going broke in this hand is if I don't straddle, or fold to the flop jam.The longer I play poker the more inclined I am to quite simply
Just to clarify my earlier post, I wasn't convinced he had KK, which is why I suspect he was angling when he shows KK.
If I thought he honestly meant to just call, I'd wonder why he didn't bet out on the two-tone flop if he was hoping to limp-3B pre, and why he'd just flat call rather than check-raise. I'd be more inclined to believe he has AK, or some KXcc combo in that scenario. If you thought he just made an honest mistake, I don't blame you for calling the jam with 2P.
This has all the markings of an angle. I wasn't sure before the reveal, simply because to shoot this angle, he first has to risk that action will check through on the flop, then he has to risk that you might fold or just flat call when he puts in his out-of-turn call. He risks losing value when he does this instead of just coming out and betting his hand.
I have to wonder if he saw you cutting out chips to put into the pot when he called out of turn. If the timing seemed suspicious, I might just call the bet, not raise, and see what he does on the turn.
