If you lived in Minneapolis, and an ICE agent demand ID.....
......would you comply. (You have broken no law. You're just walking into the grocery store.)
Why or Why not?
I will continue to both sides this because, despite differences, both sides are awful.There were 150k interior removals under Biden. That's not quite on the scale we are seeing now...and it certainly wasn't the reign of terror and wild disregard for everyone's civil rights that is driving people to leave under this fascist, but you could still very accurately call it mass depo
THIS!!!
And great to see you posting again!!
There's plenty of difference on immigration (as I'm sure you agree). I'm just saying it's absurd to say Biden's policy was open borders. I hate to give the racist xenophobic idiots any satisfaction but Trump's policies have ended immigration. Arrests are down at the border because the reign of terror has made the USA undesirable. 1.9 million people "self-deported" in 2025.
And it specifically hurts California more than other states.
When the ratio of retirees to workers increases, you add into the strains on pensions and healthcare costs which then affects CalPERS
Well, thank you. Though I don't expect we'd agree a lot about what the awful things are...some for sure, but probably not a lot.
I don't intend to keep up this spate of posting here for long, but shrug.
We certainly disagree with each other more than we agree, but I have always respected you as a poster.
You and Rococo and tame_deuces I would grade 'A' as being very thoughtful good-faith posters here.
Law enforcement cannot require you to produce ID without reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime. If they can't articulate this, I will not be providing my ID.
And whatever victor claims to be saying I would or wouldn't agree with, don't listen to him. He has literally no idea what I think and truly loves to just make up his own ideas and pretend they are mine.
If you want to know what I think about deportation, just ask me. In short, I don't support almost any deportation. If you sneak across the border, I don't have a problem with apprehending and removing, but if you are here, I think you should be given a chance to earn your place with a realistic path to citizenship.
I'm exceptionally egalitarian and anti-violence, so any accusations about me that are contrary to those two ideas are laughably wrong. They are two of my core principles. I say these things only because there are a few people that really seem to love to lie about what I believe.
Law enforcement cannot require you to produce ID without reasonable articulable suspicion that you have committed a crime. If they can't articulate this, I will not be providing my ID.And whatever victor claims to be saying I would or wouldn't agree with, don't listen to him. He has literally no idea what I think and truly loves to just make up his own ideas and pretend they ar
I endorse this message.
Victor literally accused Gorgo of being pro-genocide because he quoted from an ADL article one time. And Victor continues to this day to bring it up over and over. Too stoopid to make up.
When the ratio of retirees to workers increases, you add into the strains on pensions and healthcare costs which then affects CalPERS
Somewhat, but California is a relatively young state. Average age is 37.3, making it the 7th youngest state. Maine is the oldest at 45. And not all that many of the undocumented are getting pensions. Lots of them pay into social security without being eligible to collect on it though - but that's federal.
I just don’t think there’s much of a reason to think that every single person that comes into the country has some kind of right to be here. As long as they are given due process, what exactly is the issue with deporting someone intrinsically? It’s a practice that all countries do for good reason.
Maybe my last response was a little more hostile than it should have been. After all, I'm thought of as a grade 'A' poster.
Seemed to me like the last exchange was something like:
you: There was no mass deportation under Biden
me: 150k is kind of a mass deportation
you: I don't think undocumented people have a right to be in the USA
I don't know if you really want mass deportation or not or if you just support anything you think the Democrats do.
Maybe my last response was a little more hostile than it should have been. After all, I'm thought of as a grade 'A' poster.Seemed to me like the last exchange was something like:you: There was no mass deportation under Bidenme: 150k is kind of a mass deportationyou: I don't think undocumented people have a right to be in the USAI don't know if you really want mass deportati
Well if you agree that deportation in principle is fine, then there’s a good reason to use the term “mass deportation” to mean something other than deporting some smallish subset of the undocumented population after a thorough review of their right to be here. Seems that an Eisenhower or Trump style mass deportation is a bit different.
a quick google search says ice can ask for identification. You should always show your id when a law enforcement asks even if you don't have too its just the respectable thing for a citizen to do to make their jobs easier (which you pay for with tax dollars) Not showing id is burning your tax dollars I don't even know why this is a thread . Well I do and its bat **** crazy
Heck its illegal in the majority of western country's not to carry id and in the ones its not its still kind of expected. I don't know why its so political in America
a quick google search says ice can ask for identification. You should always show your id when a law enforcement asks even if you don't have too its just the respectable thing for a citizen to do to make their jobs easier (which you pay for with tax dollars) Not showing id is burning your tax dollars I don't even know why this is a thread . Well I do and its bat **** crazy Hec
You said it yourself, we pay their salary. Leave me tf alone and go do your job and stop harassing citizens fishing around for some bs.
lol "respectable" thing to do. No, they can try adhering to the constitution and kick rocks.
And lol illegal in the rest of western countries, this murica bitch.
Can you do another quick google search to list the countries where cops might shoot you in the face?
You should always show your id when a law enforcement asks even if you don't have too its just the respectable thing for a citizen to do to make their jobs easier (which you pay for with tax dollars)
How far does this logic extend in your mind? If a police officer asks to search your your car, should you allow it, even if you do not believe there is anything in your car that is illegal to possess? What about your home? What about your phone? What about your computer? I'm sure that police believe that widespread compliance with such requests would make their jobs easier.
You obviously do not understand America at all.
In America, a law abiding person can walk down the sidewalk free from government harassment, or at least that used to be the ideal. It’s basically why the country exists.
It is clear that current Americans do not at all value the same principles that those Americans who fought and died in WWII did. They used to be considered TheGreatestGeneration; now the American populace is a bunch of selfish idiots and *******s who view those who fight and sacrifice for the good of the country as “suckers and losers”.
The Trump era is easily America’sWorstGeneration.
You said it yourself, we pay their salary. Leave me tf alone and go do your job and stop harassing citizens fishing around for some bs.
lol "respectable" thing to do. No, they can try adhering to the constitution and kick rocks.
And lol illegal in the rest of western countries, this murica bitch.
and if you show him your id that will speed it along and stop wasting tax dollars? By not doing that your just wasting everyone's time probably including your own as he thinks of some other bullshit reason. I would allow them search whatever he they want as long as there's nothing illegal to get him out of my hair. I know its a right and all that and I respect it but its still logical to wave that right if you have nothing to hide to speed the process up. Obviously if I had a gram of coke or some embarrassing **** on my phone like a dick pic I would used those rights and im glad they exist but its also just easier to wave them sometimes.....
Also again ice is literally allowed to ask for your id. Its legal that's not this. I guess its very American to ignore your own laws. I get they need probably cause or whatever but when they ask they are claiming they have the cause so you better show it if you have it or you should be going to jail. You can sue them for not having probable cause later but you have to do what an officer says in real time and worry about the rest later.
The only logical reason to not show an ice agent your id upon request is if your a wanted criminal an illegal or you want to impede ice due to political reasons and your all the later. its fine if you want to do that I guess but be honest about it. Its not about your bullshit rights. You never had the right to "walk down the sidewalk free from government harassment" there's always been police doing their job. Its just political now. not saying you don't have the right or whatever im just saying its stupid and its just gonna make him think your guilty and waste everyone's time in most real world situations. just because you have the right to be stupid does not mean you have to be stupid.
and if you show him your id that will speed it along and stop wasting tax dollars? By not doing that your just wasting everyone's time probably including your own as he thinks of some other bullshit reason. I would allow them search whatever he they want as long as there's nothing illegal to get him out of my hair. I know its a right and all that and I respect it but its still
One is not required to carry proof-of-citizenship in the USA.
What happens if one cannot prove that they are a citizen when demanded to by ICE, stupid ****?
Stay in whatever shithole country you’re in. They deserve you and your cowardice.
and if you show him your id that will speed it along and stop wasting tax dollars? By not doing that your just wasting everyone's time probably including your own as he thinks of some other bullshit reason. I would allow them search whatever he they want as long as there's nothing illegal to get him out of my hair. I know its a right and all that and I respect it but its still
This is how Nazi Germany came to be, despicable bootlickers cheering the nazi scum because they "take care" of the undesireables....
You don't have a divers licenses? Do you not think when a cop runs your id it would tell him that stuff? Its 2026 there's databases! Any government id should be able to tell him that. Infact you usually can't get one if your not a citizen. My mom was born on an German military base and her parents never kept her birth certificate or lost it. At age 50 she couldn't get a drivers license renewed because she let all her id's expire including her passport for like 4 years because they needed two original documents untill she got a copy somehow or found a bypass. (she still drove like everyday lol)
Anyway if you are driving your car and a cop pulls you over and asks for your driver's license. (you have broken no law. you were driving and following all the rules of the road)
would you comply?
why or why not?
One is not required to carry proof-of-citizenship in the USA.
What happens if one cannot prove that they are a citizen when demanded to by ICE, stupid ****?
Stay in whatever shithole country you’re in. They deserve you and your cowardice.
Can you get a drivers license in the us if your an illegal? Apparently you can in 19 states which is also batshit crazy. but it seems like showing a driver license in the other 31 states does prove your not illegal so it seems like a solid l tool in those states for ice to use. Canada is also one of the few country's your not required to carry id around. but I still do it because I'm not stupid it could get me out of a pinch and you know like 99% of north Americans I have a drivers license that I bring with me everywhere
I never said its required..... I just said everyone has one. is not being able to read a form of stupidity? When you don't carry id on you and you have the option that's kind of stupid regardless of your rights. anyway no ice agents are asking random people for id's in grocery stores lol
believe it or not your still more likely to get hit by lightning (twice in your life) then shot in the face during a routine traffic stop!
for the USA, google tells me there are around 400 lightning strikes in a year resulting in 20-40 fatalities. and there are over 1k police shooting deaths alone the last few years. so thats not even counting the people who survive.
furthermore, last year there were between 2700 and 3100 police involved deaths recorded depending on the source. that includes the many traffic deaths.
so you were off by a few orders of magnitude on that estimation. I dont think people realize how murderous the US police are.
