Gun control
I think that the Gun control thread got lost when the old politics thread got moved.
1 The rest of the world looks at the
Well, one parent didn't. The mother asked the father to not allow the boy access to the weapon. That seems like a lot more than just a "warning sign".
I'm tempted to say the mother should also be held legally responsible as well. She did do something to try to prevent the shooting, but not nearly enough. If your son has pictures of school shooters on the wall, you need to preemptively get him put in a psych hold. Even more so if you think it's likely he'll have access to assault rifles at the house of the other parent. What was she thinking when she just handed the kid over to his father?
I have the sneaking suspicion that parents of a gang member who kills someone will never be convicted the same way a school shooters parents may.
If he just shoots another gang member, I don't even care to charge the shooter. The more those guys kill each other, the better.
If he killed someone else, and the parent gave him the gun, the parent should absolutely be charged as well. If the kid got his gun elsewhere and the parent knew nothing about the gun or his gang activity, then maybe not. I mean, I would still be fine with throwing the book at the parent who raised a murderer, but that seems out of place under current laws and enforcement.
Well, one parent didn't. The mother asked the father to not allow the boy access to the weapon. That seems like a lot more than just a "warning sign".I'm tempted to say the mother should also be held legally responsible as well. She did do something to try to prevent the shooting, but not nearly enough. If your son has pictures of school shooters on the wall, you need to pr
Yeah, in this case it seems pretty obvious but you start legislating something like that the line is pretty blurry where you need to start getting the govt involved checking your kid. Doesn't seem realistic to me.
Pretty soon we'll just have AI ordering checks on kids based on their electronic footprint though so it's probably a moot point anyways.
Is this another one of those occasions when your ideas of social propriety doesn’t scale up well in society? Absolutely.
Your positions are always an outlier.
Yes, most of society refuses to hold people accountable for their actions.
I think most people would feel the way I do if their child was killed in a school shooting. The difference is that I don't have to personally experience a terrible loss in order to want accountability for the perpetrators.
I was referring to your more nihilistic views regarding reproduction and extreme punishments you advocate for here in the past that would never translate into a good and just society.
I am not talking about felony murder, payment, incitement, threatening or coercion to make someone murder someone else. I am speaking only specifically to the idea that “not catching the warning signs” and having no actual knowledge that someone would be using your gun (or your car or your rat poison) to intentionally kill another person should lead to criminal charges.
I was referring to your more nihilistic views regarding reproduction and extreme punishments you advocate for here in the past that would never translate into a good and just society. I am not talking about felony murder, payment, incitement, threatening or coercion to make someone murder someone else. I am speaking only specifically to the idea that “not catching the warni
No more reproduction would lead to a very good and just society. It just wouldn't last very long.
Anyway, I think you're dividing things up into two categories that leave out the middle, which is the part actually being discussed.
The father in this case may have had no "actual knowledge" that his son would use the gun to kill people (how could that ever be true?), but he was alerted to the issue by his son's mother, and he actually gave the weapon and ammunition to the boy.
I can't imagine how anyone wouldn't see criminal responsibility there.
No more reproduction would lead to a very good and just society. It just wouldn't last very long.Anyway, I think you're dividing things up into two categories that leave out the middle, which is the part actually being discussed.The father in this case may have had no "actual knowledge" that his son would use the gun to kill people (how could that ever be true?), but he was ale
Your hindsight is certainly 20/20. The child cruelty evidence was cruelty to his own child which seems to warp the causation language in the statute to include injury to others.
Here is a pretty good summary of the evidence presented against the father.
Your hindsight is certainly 20/20. The child cruelty evidence was cruelty to his own child which seems to warp the causation language in the statute to include injury to others.
Here is a pretty good summary of the evidence presented againWell that's even more negligence than I had guessed. Amazing that the prosecution needed 9 days to present their case, when the evidence cited in this short article alone seem to make it an open and shut case.
Yes, a whole lot of negligence with no intent.
Can you explain why you think I’m a pos for thinking parents of a gang member who kills won’t be held liable for murder the same way a school shooter will?
It seems charging school shooter parents is already a thing and becoming more widely accepted while the same can’t be said for the gang members’ parents. So am I a pos for pointing out this fact or am I just blind to the gang member parents cases?
lol, **** off you piece of ****. go play dumb with someone else.
Can you explain why you think I’m a pos for thinking parents of a gang member who kills won’t be held liable for murder the same way a school shooter will? It seems charging school shooter parents is already a thing and becoming more widely accepted while the same can’t be said for the gang members’ parents. So am I a pos for pointing out this fact or am I just blind to the gan
I agree that it's less likely. The question now is, why do you think that's important?
Can you explain why you think I’m a pos for thinking parents of a gang member who kills won’t be held liable for murder the same way a school shooter will? It seems charging school shooter parents is already a thing and becoming more widely accepted while the same can’t be said for the gang members’ parents. So am I a pos for pointing out this fact or am I just blind to the gan
No, you're a pos for trying to imply that minorities have privilege in the legal system. And spare me the indignant routine by saying you mentioned nothing about race and how there are white gang members, etc. We are all familiar with your schtick.
Can you explain why you think I’m a pos for thinking parents of a gang member who kills won’t be held liable for murder the same way a school shooter will? It seems charging school shooter parents is already a thing and becoming more widely accepted while the same can’t be said for the gang members’ parents. So am I a pos for pointing out this fact or am I just blind to the gan
Charging school shooter parents is not already a thing. It has happened once in a state that doesn't have parental gun laws and once in a state where the parent violated the state's gun laws. If a teen gang member uses a parents gun to kill somebody I would guess it would have the same chance of getting the parent charged. Which is likely slim in today's world (unless it is clear what their son is doing before the shooting). But its unclear that it is even happening, because gangs get guns through illegal channels, not from parents.
I really enjoy reading your well thought out responses. It truly is thought provoking.
It seems odd that we value the lives of people in schools more than people in bars, parking lots, front yards, the street and really anywhere else. Why are parents of school shooters the only ones talked about if they should get charged? Does the media and lawmakers not care about kids getting murdered anywhere else?
No, you're a pos for trying to imply that minorities have privilege in the legal system. And spare me the indignant routine by saying you mentioned nothing about race and how there are white gang members, etc. We are all familiar with your schtick.
Read what I wrote above. Minorities are more likely to be murder victims on the street. Keep projecting.
Charging school shooter parents is not already a thing. It has happened once in a state that doesn't have parental gun laws and once in a state where the parent violated the state's gun laws. If a teen gang member uses a parents gun to kill somebody I would guess it would have the same chance of getting the parent charged. Which is likely slim in today's world (unless it is
So school shooting deaths are far less frequent than gun murders outside of schools and it is just a huge coincidence that the only 2 memorable examples of parents being charged for something like this just happens to be a school shooters parents? Come on. And look at news stories about this issue - it always sites a school shooters parents.
lol, I’m sure you are right that no gang member has killed with a gun his parents gave him.
Yeah, that's not racist at all.
But to answer your question, when a gangbanger kills another gangbanger it's a lot different than when a person slays a bunch of kids in a class learning algebra. Chit's not rocket science.
...So school shooting deaths are far less frequent than gun murders outside of schools and it is just a huge coincidence that the only 2 memorable examples of parents being charged for something like this just happens to be a school shooters parents? Come on. And look at news stories about this issue - it always sites a school shooters parents. lol, I’m sure you are right that
This has nothing to do with frequency.
Gang members would never use a parent's gun. They are using guns that can't be traced. They get them illegally and they don't want their parents (often just a Mom) to know that they are in a gang. Unless of course their father is also in the same gang at which point the untraceable gun would definitely be something their father got them.
Maybe we get serious about strong gun legislation and conversations like this dwindle.
Well, yeah no ****. Obviously it isn't racist to say a simple fact like I did - I don't think anyone was making the case that it was. However, I think the reason there is such a disparity involves some racism along the way.
But to answer your question, when a gangbanger kills another gangbanger it's a lot different than when a person slays a bunch of kids in a class learning algebra. Chit's not rocket science.
Unfortunately, gang members don't ONLY kill other gang members. Kids are killed on the street and in yards every year, but the parents of their murderer has 0% chance to be charged.
You mean children? It seems odd that we value the lives of children more than adults?
I'm not sure when the last time you have been outside, but kids are often seen in bars, yards, the street, parks and many other places in public. Some of these kids are also murdered by gang members - intentionally and unintentionally. Teachers (who are adults) are also killed in school shootings so there are both kids and adults killed inside schools and outside schools.
Well, yeah no ****. Obviously it isn't racist to say a simple fact like I did - I don't think anyone was making the case that it was. However, I think the reason there is such a disparity involves some racism along the way.
It's racist because it conveniently ignores socioeconomic status.
Unfortunately, gang members don't ONLY kill other gang members. Kids are killed on the street and in yards every year, but the parents of their murderer has 0% chance to be charged.I'm not sure when the last time you have been outside, but kids are often seen in bars, yards, the street, parks and many other places in public. Some of these kids are also murdered by gang members
You mean gang members also go to bars, parks and barbecues?
I'm not sure when the last time you have been outside, but kids are often seen in bars, yards, the street, parks and many other places in public. Some of these kids are also murdered by gang members - intentionally and unintentionally. Teachers (who are adults) are also killed in school shootings so there are both kids and adults killed inside schools and outside schools.
I'm not sure when the last time you made a good argument, because this certainly isn't one.
