USA Goes to War Against Iran
Time for a dedicated thread to the war.
How long will it last and what will be the probable outcome?
So the word on the street is that the US has already lost and that it was unwinnable due to strategic advantages Iran has like being able to block the straight of Hormuz, the missile and missile interceptor economics, and the fact that Iran can exert extreme pressure on America's allies by attacking their oil infrastructure or even their water desalinization plants.
in iran? where are you getting these numbers. i dont think isreal bombed 13 hospitals in Palestine and they use them as military bases
The World Health Organization chief said on Thursday that it has verified 13 attacks on health infrastructure in Iran amid a U.S.-Israeli campaign
If I understand LandOLakes correctly, if a hospital is damaged at all by American bombs, then by (his) definition the hospital was being 'targeted' by the U.S. bombers.
My definition? Wtf? The WHO says that it has, "verified 13 attacks on health infrastructure in Iran."
You can play semantics on whether when the chief of the WHO says "attacks on health infrastructure" he means a piece of debris from a mile away cracked a window of an STD clinic and they call it a targeted attack and a health infrastructure or not.
But what we know is they have dropped thousands of bombs at a cost of a billion dollars per day and decimating Tehran, and some boomers think they're only going after military sites because in The Art of Bootlicking, the MIC would never dream of leveling residential areas in times of conflict. Never did that in Vietnam, never did that in Iraq, never did that in Korea, never dropped two nukes on Japan, and so the list goes on.
health infrasture does not mean hospital... it should be an abortion clinic im sure they have those
I remember Iranian students chanting that in 1979. Do you have any more recent examples?
health infrasture does not mean hospital... it should be an abortion clinic im sure they have those
A hospital is a health infrastructure. It's not the only kind of health infrastructure, but it falls under the umbrella of health infrastructure. Even you are not dumb enough to argue it isn't, but I'm sure you're just itching to troll on it.
so your claim of 25 hospitals is factually incorrect its health infastruce. could be a local seven eleven that sells condoms or what ever alchohol or drugs iranians do. talking about getting fact checked by your own facts
so your claim of 25 hospitals is factually incorrect its health infastruce. could be a local seven eleven that sells condoms or what ever alchohol or drugs iranians do
I never claimed 25 hospitals.
I'm also not going to respond to your tardo logic that a convenience store is considered a health infrastructure to the World Health Organization if they sell condoms or aspirins, so make your response to this post a good one, as I'm not going to indulge you any further.
you claimed an arbitrary numner of hospitals the 25 was trolling. but then 10 mins later you said its not hospitals its infastructe which is more then hospitals. you essentially fact checked yourself gj
So the word on the street is that the US has already lost and that it was unwinnable due to strategic advantages Iran has like being able to block the straight of Hormuz, the missile and missile interceptor economics, and the fact that Iran can exert extreme pressure on America's allies by attacking their oil infrastructure or even their water desalinization plants.
It is unclear what Trump's objectives even were, so hard to determine whether they were met them or not. You could probably spin any number of narratives arguing the US won or lost depending on what your preferred narrative is.
I do know that there is going to be a very large market for US made military hardware (and not much of a market for Russian/Chinese which performed very poorly) after this; so win for the MIC if nothing else. Although this war clearly showed we need to get on our drone defense game.
And Trump does deserve blame for not preparing with Ukranians who have capable Shaheed defense expertise that was not utilized.
Yes. He painted himself in that corner. But necessity is the mother of invention. Ukraine developed less costly defensive capabilities against Shaheeds because they had to. For political reasons the US probably isn't going to move very fast in this direction. But I am guessing Israel will, and whatever they come up with they can provide the technology. (This is all assuming we have an Israel friendly govt moving forward, which is maybe not a good assumption).
So the word on the street is that the US has already lost and that it was unwinnable due to strategic advantages Iran has like being able to block the straight of Hormuz, the missile and missile interceptor economics, and the fact that Iran can exert extreme pressure on America's allies by attacking their oil infrastructure or even their water desalinization plants.
Interesting.
Trump will say we won no matter the outcome.
So the word on the street is that the US has already lost and that it was unwinnable due to strategic advantages Iran has like being able to block the straight of Hormuz, the missile and missile interceptor economics, and the fact that Iran can exert extreme pressure on America's allies by attacking their oil infrastructure or even their water desalinization plants.
What street is that? Not sure what strategic advantages Iran has at all.
Their advantage is the same as Hamas.
They dont care about their people at all, and even use them as human shields (like Hamas IRGC and paramilitaries have abandoned their bases and moved into hospitals and schools to use their civilian infrastructure as shields). And they have no compunction attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure around the entire region we are ostensibly protecting. Including their own people.
So putting the entire onus on the US to protect all the civilians on both sides will be exhausting, militarily and psychologically, and create an unfavorably dynamic in a protracted engagement.
Of course this strategy didn't work great for Hamas, for a lot of reasons. But a main one is that although Israel didnt go out of their ways to target civilians, they accepted collateral damage, which the US probably wont, for a lot of geopolitical reasons.
There is a reason we have fired several thousand highly destructive missiles, and the largest collateral damage event was accidentally hitting a school basically right next to a base, where IRGC is probably greatly inflating the number of civilian casualties. For all the rhetoric, we are actually being very careful not to have civilian collateral damage, and working hard to keep civilians throughout the entire region being targeted by the IRGC safe, which provides the IRGC a lot of leverage.
Yes. He painted himself in that corner. But necessity is the mother of invention. Ukraine developed less costly defensive capabilities against Shaheeds because they had to. For political reasons the US probably isn't going to move very fast in this direction. But I am guessing Israel will, and whatever they come up with they can provide the technology. (This is all assumin
As long as AIPAC keeps filling the coffers of politicians in BOTH parties, no reason to think we won't have an Israel friendly government for a long while imo.
Their advantage is the same as Hamas. They dont care about their people at all, and even use them as human shields (like Hamas IRGC and paramilitaries have abandoned their bases and moved into hospitals and schools to use their civilian infrastructure as shields). And they have no compunction attacking civilians and civilian infrastructure around the entire region we are ost
I think it is possible, maybe even likely, that Israel was targeting civilians.
One of the few things that victor and I agree on.
Probably Jiang Xuegin. He said Trump would win the election, Trump would start a war with Iran, the US would lose the war (that's an easy one if you look at any conflict post-WWII), and million-dollar interceptors can't compete with $50K drones.
Also, lets keep some perspective.
Iran's entire oil industry goes through a tiny island in the Persian Gulf called Kharg island, but by the British and US, and appropriated by the regime in 1979. The US could destroy it in 5 minutes and Iran economy is doneso. They also have a severe water shortage due to horrible water policies and the native climate. Would be very easy to destroy their water sources too. Iran could be easily sent back to the Stone Ages with only a few bombs. Destroying Iran as a functional polity is not the problem. That would be trivially easy if that was the objective.
The IRGCs greatest leverage is our constraints and restraints.
Then your theory would require Israel being very bad at warfare.
The IRGC killed comparable numbers of their own citizens in a couple days with nothing but machine guns than Israel did in Gaza over years using enough explosives to probably kill hundreds of millions of people if that was the objective.
The international outrage (especially in the USA) would have made in political suicide for the IDF to wipe out Gaza quickly.
The international outrage (especially in the USA) would have made in political suicide for the IDF to wipe out Gaza quickly.
They killed so few people, Gaza had more births than deaths during the war. Even if their goal was to slowly "genocide" the people for political reasons, I would say they are pretty incompetent at it.
Given their low TFR well below replacement level, one could argue the IRGC's actions against their own people were more genocidal than Isael's against Gaza. For a county with an extremely low TFR (Iran), even killing "only" ~30,000 mostly young people just entering the fertile part of their lives is brutal.
That being said, Israel is clearly willing to make life very uncomfortable for the people, and will accept varying levels of collateral damage, depending on the value of the target. Which is more than the US is willing to do in Iran, for obvious humanitarian and geopolitical reasons.
For all the rhetoric, I think the US is unfairly maligned for its humanitarian efforts during wars.
