Lodge Card Club Raided / Grand Jury does not indict any Lodge employees
Came looking for some info on this, but I guess I will kick the thread off. Anyone there at the time or know more detail
Is it a judge, jury or a commission that determines if the Lodge was engaged in illegal gambling? Is there any inkling of timeframe?
This is certainly going to be a landmark case and ruling for Texas poker.
Semi surprised how many people support Doug despite a 10+ year track record of him being a piece of shameless pathological liar piece of ****.
Semi surprised how many people support Doug despite a 10+ year track record of him being a piece of shameless pathological liar piece of ****.
you can believe doug is exactly as you described him and also believe that this is a politically motivated "show trial" based on the available evidence. doug isn't the only owner.
you can believe doug is exactly as you described him and also believe that this is a politically motivated hit job based on the available evidence. doug isn't the only owner.
That's fair
I also feel bad for the employees and players also, but negative empathy for Doug, and Thomas.
Is it a judge, jury or a commission that determines if the Lodge was engaged in illegal gambling? Is there any inkling of timeframe?
This is certainly going to be a landmark case and ruling for Texas poker.
Two independent paths. Administrative law path where TABC is “prosecutor” and standar or is preponderance of evidence. TAB can fine or suspend them into bk
Parallel DA or AG can pursue criminal proceedings where defendant can select jury or bench trial. TABC is simply the investigating agency and thus witnesses. Here would be beyond reasonable doubt.
Ofc IRS or FinCEN can also pursue federally under tax laws or AML/Fraud.
Basically if LE decides to hit hard Lodge is looking at months or years. And even if they win in criminal court, TABC could find in admin case that this was illegal gambling and enforce as such. There is no collateral estoppel to prevent them.
you can believe doug is exactly as you described him and also believe that this is a politically motivated "show trial" based on the available evidence. doug isn't the only owner.
Not really a show trial. Just finally choosing to resolve the issue. At one time, back when TCH started all this, used tipping chips, no rake, no tournaments, actually controlled private place and no liquor licenses MAYBE the biz model passes the duck test. But as most rooms operate now it really isn’t close. Competition pushed them to push the limits and IMO the veil they wore has been shredded.
Not really a show trial. Just finally choosing to resolve the issue. At one time, back when TCH started all this, used tipping chips, no rake, no tournaments, actually controlled private place and no liquor licenses MAYBE the biz model passes the duck test. But as most rooms operate now it really isn’t close. Competition pushed them to push the limits and IMO the veil they wor
fair enough! a very important thing to remember here when the "scumbaggery" awards are finally handed out is this outcome should have been 100% planned and prepared for by the lodge owners. If anyone involved isn't left whole and the owners say "this was outside our control. we didn't see it coming. excuse excuse" that will be criminal level scumbaggery IMO. If everyone is made whole and gets out "clean" the lodge ownership should be appropriately applauded for good and proper planning full we'll knowing the party has a shelf life.
Two independent paths. Administrative law path where TABC is “prosecutor” and standar or is preponderance of evidence. TAB can fine or suspend them into bkParallel DA or AG can pursue criminal proceedings where defendant can select jury or bench trial. TABC is simply the investigating agency and thus witnesses. Here would be beyond reasonable doubt. Ofc IRS or FinCEN can also p
Rather than typing up another wall of text, I will just say I mostly agree with you.
At minimum, this looks like the beginning of a much more serious phase of scrutiny for Texas poker, and if authorities want to make an example out of a room, the Lodge was always an obvious target.
Four years later, here we are, and your breakdown of the likely paths forward seems pretty plausible. This does not look like something that gets wrapped up quickly.
fair enough! a very important thing to remember here when the "scumbaggery" awards are finally handed out is this outcome should have been 100% planned and prepared for by the lodge owners. If anyone involved isn't left whole and the owners say "this was outside our control. we didn't see it coming. excuse excuse" that will be criminal level scumbaggery IMO. If everyone is made
On the second point, I do not disagree either, especially the bolded part. Doug reads this forum, and it was not just me raising red flags over the years.
That said, Doug recently went public and said players would be made whole. While that may have been the right thing to say in the moment, it may also have been a legal blunder or at least a very dangerous expectation to create publicly.
Just consider the scenario where the investigation fizzles out, the Lodge pays fines, reopens, and then gets hit again later. Does anyone really think the authorities would just quietly move on at that point? I do not. I think scrutiny would only increase.
And that is where the public assurances become tricky. If a future seizure or freeze involved $20 million instead of $1.35 million, people would absolutely point back to his prior statements and expect that same promise to scale. That does not automatically mean he is legally on the hook for every dollar, but it does mean he may have created a public expectation that becomes much more dangerous if the numbers ever get bigger.
Not really a show trial. Just finally choosing to resolve the issue. At one time, back when TCH started all this, used tipping chips, no rake, no tournaments, actually controlled private place and no liquor licenses MAYBE the biz model passes the duck test. But as most rooms operate now it really isn’t close. Competition pushed them to push the limits and IMO the veil they wor
Agree. Daily memberships. There is no question the owners benefit from gambling. Everything designed to skirt the law.
Pushed the envelope with streaming and broadcasting that casino gambling is legal in Texas. Which it isn’t.
This case will have a monumental impact on all of gambling in Texas. I think it will take a long time for a decision to be made.
There may be some losers in this ordeal, like no doubt Doug will have a tougher time bragging about being rich by pretending a million bucks ain't nothing. A sign of unwealth if there ever were one.
So let's think of the winners:
1) The 90% of poker players who barely scrape by, are in credit card debt and absentee fathers and husbands. Their children, spouses and finances will do better. They'll probably drink less and eat healthier once more positive traits snowball.
2) The environment. Less gas, less tire wear, and less traffic getting there.
3) Robbi Jade Lew. She was cast out of the limelight, unfairly I might add, but can fill the current vacuum and provide high level executive and poker coaching.
Rather than typing up another wall of text, I will just say I mostly agree with you.At minimum, this looks like the beginning of a much more serious phase of scrutiny for Texas poker, and if authorities want to make an example out of a room, the Lodge was always an obvious target.Four years later, here we are, and your breakdown of the likely paths forward seems pretty plausibl
Doug edited his remark to say the players would be made whole in conjunction with his lawyer’s advice.
I think that opens a can of worms in that he will also then be required to pay other creditors and employees.
I think Doug meant well but didn’t comprehend what his ‘promise’ entails.
And that is where the public assurances become tricky. If a future seizure or freeze involved $20 million instead of $1.35 million, people would absolutely point back to his prior statements and expect that same promise to scale. That does not automatically mean he is legally on the hook for every dollar, but it does mean he may have created a public expectation that becomes mu
If the lodge ownership has to cough up 7 figures to players, employees, vendors etc. after all their money is confiscated/fined and then it reopens they should put a big sign on the front door saying, "WE OPERATE IN A LEGAL GRAY AREA, YOUR LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS CAN SHAKE US DOWN AT ANY MOMENT, PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK". It will cost them approximately zero business.
fair enough! a very important thing to remember here when the "scumbaggery" awards are finally handed out is this outcome should have been 100% planned and prepared for by the lodge owners. If anyone involved isn't left whole and the owners say "this was outside our control. we didn't see it coming. excuse excuse" that will be criminal level scumbaggery IMO. If everyone is made
As an LLC if you go bankrupt you can't have funds set aside to pay off who you want. The Lodge has to pay off any debts according to specific rules set forth by the bankruptcy court. I assume players would be last in line.
If the lodge ownership has to cough up 7 figures to players, employees, vendors etc. after all their money is confiscated/fined and then it reopens they should put a big sign on the front door saying, "WE OPERATE IN A LEGAL GRAY AREA, YOUR LOCAL ELECTED OFFICIALS CAN SHAKE US DOWN AT ANY MOMENT, PLAY AT YOUR OWN RISK". It will cost them approximately zero business.
It's an llc there is no personal responsibility for the business debt or any lawsuits against the Lodge. If the business goes belly up and does not have the money to pay then tough titties.
As an LLC if you go bankrupt you can't have funds set aside to pay off who you want. The Lodge has to pay off any debts according to specific rules set forth by the bankruptcy court. I assume players would be last in line.
Doug intimated it was with his own private money. He didn't say the lodge or the ownership group was going to pay the players in his initial statement (which may have since been edited) if IIRc. He said he was going to pay it.
