The Impending Death of Modern Capitalism
Let's make sure we're all on the same page on the definition of capitalism.
It's basically a system in which private owne
Agreed. The divide you suggest is along the right lines imo.
As a rough heuristic the markets is fine imo if the customer has real choice and it's ok for the supplier to fail. if not then the whole idea of a free market doesn't work as 'the invisible hand' doesn't exist.
https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/5713...
The US is headed for mass unemploymzent, and no one is prepared
Save Capitalism: Redistribute Income!
People in the US having been saying this since the nation was formed and they have been wrong for 250 consecutive years. As each piece of new technology/advancement came people swore this time it is different, that this time new jobs wouldn’t come to replace the old jobs a new technology was taking.
AI will take some jobs, but suggesting we are all going to be unemployable anytime in the next few generations is ignoring history.
In terms of how much an invention changed the world I don’t see AI being in that top tier that includes the wheel, printing press, internet, light bulb, telephone, internal combustion engine or vaccines.
I think what people are calling modern captilism cannot survive in its modern state without drastic drastic consequences.
The fact is that AI is taking over and will be able to do most if not all of the jobs people currently do. When AI is cheaper then a full time employee for any given job its only a matter of time before that human employee is terminated.
If captilism in its modern form stays the same then you will have the vast majority of people left without any money or support for housing or food or energy. Left to literally starve to death or killed by police bots as they try to steal food and or shelter.
I am aware that some countries have social welfare programs which at least support people whom are out of work for whatever reason to differing degrees depending on countries or areas etc. However this will be something on a whole other scale, we wont be talking about 5% unemployment or 10% but 75%+ if not more. With governments already in massive debt world wide and the threat of the debts becoming to large Nation states simply will not be to support 75%+ of the population on unemployment without either massively taxing the super rich and or massively altering the current system.
It basically comes down to if what people are calling captilism continues to exist in its modern form then the vast majority of the human population will starve to death on the streets or die fighting the robot armies of the billionaires and elite class.
I am not saying that is the definitive future but if it isnt then the economic and political system will have changed a lot from what it is today.
Winni, I responded to your post in my post 2 posts prior to your posts.
Cliffs, people have been saying what you are saying about previous advances in tech and every time they said “yeah, but this time it’s different” and they have been wrong every single time.
To take it a step further I’d add that we will continue to see the most capitalistic countries will mop the floor with the least capitalist countries as they have been doing for hundreds of years. In fact, advances in tech (such as AI) will continue to grow the gap between the more capitalistic countries vs countries with planned economies.
jalfrezi, if you think capitalism can get brutal towards the every day man you should read book or listen to a podcast about the history of the alternatives (planned economies).
Thanks for the link:
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jalfrezi, if you think capitalism can get brutal towards the every day man you should read book or listen to a podcast about the history of the alternatives (planned economies).
Cuban workers are treated extremely well, but then again no US companies are there.
I think if you take a good faith look between the avg Cuban worker and American with Healthcare, pay, living costs, union options, worker rights, the American starts to edge out quite a bit.
Depends how you weight those factors. If you want to be a medium wealthy highly insecure arsehole, sure, but if you want top quality healthcare for your family with no danger of becoming homeless, er no.
Depends how you weight those factors. If you want to be a medium wealthy highly insecure arsehole, sure, but if you want top quality healthcare for your family with no danger of becoming homeless, er no.
Sure, and each person is going to weigh those factors differently. I just really think things are a lot more nuanced than simply stating the take that so-and-so country has universal healthcare as if that defines any sort of quality of life, because some of the worst imaginable areas I wouldn’t want to live in have that. Also, both supermax prisons in the U.S. and Nut Nuts’ ideal world have universal care with zero chance of becoming homeless, yet no one is trying to break into and live in that world.
It's obviously to each of their own but I'd rather have some increased means of freedom of choice even if it meant a potential risk than having my options controlled by some other idiot.
...but this argument is so damn ideologically driven that everyone just argues for their own sportsball team over anything else so nothing of importance ever really gets discussed.
...but this argument is so damn ideologically driven that everyone just argues for their own sportsball team over anything else so nothing of importance ever really gets discussed.
I think the people have spoken:
United States (2021–2024)
Immigration: +9.2 million net (2.7% of population)
Emigration: 180,000–200,000 annually (0.06% of population)
Cuba (2021–2024)
Immigration: ~15,000 total (0.1% of population)
Emigration: 1.01 million–1.8 million total (10%–18% of population)
capitalism and industrialism are not equivalent
neither are socialism and altruism
capitalism is atomistic and competitive. it divides people while propagating asymmetries of information for exploitation with a focus on innovation and productivity
socialism is mosaic and cooperative. it coordinates people while undermining privacy for the sake of accuracy with a focus on fairness and subsistence
feudalism is epicentric and repressive. it dominates people while relieving the twin burdens of choice and responsibility with a focus on stability and grandeur
all three forces are in play, contemporaneously at odds with each other at macro and micro levels, from Congressional tax policy down to your interaction with the grocery store clerk
I think the people have spoken:
United States (2021–2024)
Immigration: +9.2 million net (2.7% of population)
Emigration: 180,000–200,000 annually (0.06% of population)
Cuba (2021–2024)
Immigration: ~15,000 total (0.1% of population)
Emigration: 1.01 million–1.8 million total (10%–18% of population)
You didn’t have to dunk on him so bad.
Your take is so good it may shut down the thread. Anyone who thinks capitalism is dying should consider how many people risk their lives trying to get into capitalistic countries. They should also consider over the last 50 or 100 years what economic system a huge majority of medical and technological breakthroughs came from.
I took F72 as saying people who see things or prioritize like jalfrezi are entitled to do so.
the only reason someone could want to leave a country that has been subjected to multiple generations of embargo-effected economic isolation must be the lack of systemic, landed rent-seeking
you got em good there, johnny boy!
the only reason someone could want to leave a country that has been subjected to multiple generations of embargo-effected economic isolation must be the lack of systemic, landed rent-seeking
you got em good there, johnny boy!
Was about to post something along this.
Why everyone who says ''look cuba lol eco lol **** country'' never accounts for the embargo?
the only reason someone could want to leave a country that has been subjected to multiple generations of embargo-effected economic isolation must be the lack of systemic, landed rent-seeking
you got em good there, johnny boy!
That's irrelevant to my response to F72.
But to your point, capitalism and socialism are basically designed to make up for each other's weaknesses. I think it's pretty apparent which schema people prefer. Not that they wouldn't like better guardrails and safety nets, but unlike purely socialist states that have pretty much gone the way of the do do bird, the future will be mitigating capitalism's weaknesses as opposed to replacing it with large scale socialism.
People claiming a planned economy didn't work because of an outside country's embargo always reminds me of a fan of a NFL team claiming their team didn't make the playoffs because of a missed holding call by a ref in their 1st quarter of their 1st game in a season they went 3-14. Yeah, it was either the missed called or the fact that your offense only averaged 14 pts a game all season.
If an embargo from one (or even a few countries) can cause your economy to suck for decades maybe your economy wouldn't have been strong w/o the embargos either.
There is a reason why we see so few planned economies in the world today... even the planned economies of the past realized how inefficient they were and converted to the one economic system that has pulled more people out of poverty than any other idea man has ever come up with.
I don't think capitalism was so much created as much as formalized and legalized. Outside of family, friends or small groups where we do see a 'from each... to each...' function, capitalism is just how people behave economically once various sorts of coercion are removed.
afaiu capitalism was very much created through the enclosure acts in England
beforehand you had lords in a fealty web and abused peasants all vibing in between skirmishes for the next round of entitlement roulette
otherwise it was all just sustenance, prayer, and the occasional disciplinary spectacle
until advances in shipping revealed the latent material value of all that land, the peasants were forced to leave, and property came into its own as something more than just a bragging right
capitalism is just how people behave economically once various sorts of coercion are removed
capitalism was very much "coerced" and did not just sort of happen
Proudhon's formulation that "property is theft" stands for the inherently violent aspect of capitalism's requirement of privileged access to natural resources.
