GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread
I may have been overly critical of Pippen. He may have been better than Ray Allen. But i bet it would be closer than you think if situations were different. Like if Allen didn't have to take lesser roles playing on 2 different great teams. And Pippen only had one guy better than him so had more chances to cook. Pippen did alot but kinda feels like how. Didn't have a great jump shot. He was good at driving to the basket. And taller than Allen making it easier to shoot over people. But again Pippens biggest strength was his defense which is what Jordan wanted more. As jordan didn't need help on offense. Like even though Rodman had zero offense he was a good fit for Jordan because he wanted defense and rebounding. But woulda been nice for Jordan to have some more talented people to play with like Lebron did.
Like if Ray Allen played number 2 to Jordan for his whole career you don't think we'd be talking about him with more revere/awe? Instead of playing number 3 to Garnett and Pierce. Or to Lebron, Wade, Bosh, Mike Miller, Shane Battier, Juwon Howard, Rashard Lewis, James Jones and others. I mean there's only one ball hard for Allen to cook under those conditions.
Why do you just ignore the fact that Ray Allen only played with LeBron when he was 37 and 38?
Jordan played with 4 time Scoring champ George Gervin, so should we just pretend Gervin and Jordan were a dynamic duo for Gervin's entire prime?
Why do you just ignore the fact that Ray Allen only played with LeBron when he was 37 and 38?
Jordan played with 4 time Scoring champ George Gervin, so should we just pretend Gervin and Jordan were a dynamic duo for Gervin's entire prime?
I hearya some. But for what they brought Ray Allen in to do, which was be a sharp shooter, it didn't matter that much he was older. They don't lose their stroke. The heat had so many talented players they all had to take lesser roles. And his pretty much was stand out at 3 point land for when we need you. Didn't matter he wasn't as athletic or conditioned as he was when he was younger imo. Just needed to be the great shooter that he was. They had 3 sharp shooters him, Miller, and Battier. He was the outside guy, Bosh the inside guy, and Lebron and Wade at the top of the key looking to drive.
Jordan played games with George Gervin? If so, clearly a different situation as Gervin's career was completely over. Obviously Ray Allen was still playing at a very high level.
Gervin scored 16.2 points per game in his final season alongside Jordan. He was a 4 time scoring champ, that scoring touch never goes. Obviously he was still playing at a very high level.
Jordan also played with 4 time champion and Hall of Famer Robert Parish. Parish averaged 7.9 rebounds per 36 minutes that year. That rebounding skill never leaves you. Obviously Parody was still playing at a very high level.
Gervin scored 16.2 points per game in his final season alongside Jordan. He was a 4 time scoring champ, that scoring touch never goes. Obviously he was still playing at a very high level. Jordan also played with 4 time champion and Hall of Famer Robert Parish. Parish averaged 7.9 rebounds per 36 minutes that year. That rebounding skill never leaves you. Obviously Parody
Lol. They were clearly at the end of their careers. Where Ray Allen was still the best shooter in basketball helping his team alot more than those guys. Again, Allen won Lebron a championship after Lebron missed the big shot in game 6 vs Spurs. Ball landed in Allen's hands and he made the shot. If he misses the series was over.
Btw, even if your claim that Ray Allen was 100 years old. So what? It's not true, but for argument's sake let's say he was. I already said he had to play a lesser role going to the Heat due to all the riches the Heat had. Your argument is trying to say that Jordan had more talent to play with than Lebron did. And we know that's ridiculous. The 2 best players Jordan played with were Kukoc and Pippen. And Kukoc wasn't there for the first 3 peat. So Jordan had 1 star on his team in Pippen and he 3 peat's. Then 3 peat's again with more help in Kukoc and Rodman. Still nowhere near Lebron's bunch of stars for his championships, and all those finals losses too.
Ray Allen was a 10 point per game guy, 1 assist per game guy, in the 2012 playoffs, the year before he joined the Heat. He shot 30% from 3 in those playoffs.
His role didn't change when he came to the Heat. His role had already changed due to his age.
Ray Allen was a 10 point per game guy, 1 assist per game guy, in the 2012 playoffs, the year before he joined the Heat. He shot 30% from 3 in those playoffs.
His role didn't change when he came to the Heat. His role had already changed due to his age.
If Ray Allen was such a feeble old washed up man with the Heat why was he in the game when the game was on the line? How did he hit the big shot in game 6 vs Spurs after Lebron missed if they considered hm washed up? He played 41 minutes in that game too. They had a whole bunch of talent they coulda put out there if he was done.
Why were they called the "Big 4"? Wouldn't they just say Ray Allen joined the team? Sounds like somebody thought he was BIG.
Still didn't answer about all the other talent Lebron played with while Jordan only had Pippen in his 1st 3 peat. While Lebron never had a 3 peat. Played 4 years in Miami with his immortals and only won twice. One thanks to Ray Allen. Then a 2nd 4 year tour with the Cavs and only won once. And they were down 3 to 1 in games to the Warriors while Steph was playing on 2 broken ankles. Draymond gets suspended. Bogut had back problems. I think he even missed games, but either way he was not himself. Then if not for Kyrie's heroics and Jr Smith's clutch 3rd quarter 3's they would got blown out in game 7. But Lebron's putting his cohones did change the momentum of the series once Draymond got suspended.
All good bro. Just let's keep it real. If Lebron is the goat you say he is you don't have to lie for him to make your argument.
Seriously gonna tell me Jordan doesn't win more than 2 championships with Wade, Bosh, Allen, Battier, Miller, and others. He wins all 4 of those seasons with Heat and does it easily. Again Jordan had a 3 peat with just Pippen. Then move to the Cavs and Jordan doesn't dominate with Kevin Love and Kyrie? Tristin Thompson getting the rebounds. It's so obvious Jordan woulda done so much more with all that talent.
Jordan swept the Bad Boy Pistons to go onto win the title with just Pippen. The Pistons, one of the best teams that weren't picked from Lebron's immortals rolodex.
Jordan never does that kind of stuff. He retires instead.
Would have could have might have not worth reading.
2025 Season
SGA........................ 33 ppg
Jalen Williams....... 21 ppg
^^^^ Imagine if Jalen Williams was 5th in MVP voting - this would obviously be absurd.
Even though Jalen Williams was All-defense, he's clearly carried by SGA and therefore doesn't sniff MVP votes in seasons that SGA plays...
This is how it should have been for Pippen - there's never been a bigger statistical gap between 1st and 2nd option than MJ/Pippen, so Pippen should never sniff MVP votes in seasons that MJ played, similar to the dynamic between SGA/Williams.
Carry on..
The historical record shows that Pippen never played above a prime Larry Nance, Shawn Marion or Iguodala level, but the winning spotlight inflated him to all-time status and underserved media accolade.. Again, this is the statistical and historical record.
Ultimately, winning 2nd options like Klay, Pippen and Williams are the most carried and overrated group of players in history.. They need titles to start making All-NBA (they need winning spotlight to be seen as good), and never make All-NBA on losing teams.
Jordan never does that kind of stuff. He retires instead.
Would have could have might have not worth reading.
..................................... Lebron........ MJ
Finals teams................... 4-6.......... 6-0
Preseason favs............... 3-4.......... 5-0
1 or 2 seeds.................... 4-5.......... 6-0
1 All-star teammate....... 1-7.......... 5-2
2 All-star teammates..... 2-3.......... 0-0
^^^^ The only way to reconcile this for Lebron is "woulda-coulda-shoulda".
So don't get it twisted because LEBRON is the guy that can't 3-peat no matter who we put around him, not Jordan .
Since Lebron can't 3-peat or produce a dynasty no matter who we put around him, he's objectively inferior to Jordan.
No one is saying that Kerr is a better player than Allen. What we are saying is that 38 year old Allen wasn't a star.
No he wasn't.
But he was a nice addition to a spoiled Lebron who got so much in his career.
In addition to the superstars lebron got to play with, he got tons of solid role players also.
All great players get alot. So no excuses for anyone.
Both Jordan and Lebron had lots of help.
But Jordan just achieved more in less time.
I still don't think you guys get this guy average like 35 while leading the league in steals and winning DPOY
That I know of, hes the only player to be the best offensive and defensive player at the same time.
That takes absurd skill, conditioning, heart. Its crazy sick
Drexler was more skilled all around than Pippen. Defense similar but Drexler was really good at offense.
lol
Steph Curry has missed the playoffs in 41% of his seasons.
LeBron has made the Finals in 43% of his seasons. And that's assuming he doesn't get there this year.
FG - StEpH iS BeTeR ThAn lEBrOn.
Steph Curry has missed the playoffs in 41% of his seasons.
LeBron has made the Finals in 43% of his seasons. And that's assuming he doesn't get there this year.
FG - StEpH iS BeTeR ThAn lEBrOn.
Wow. You finally admitted it. Best shooter in history with clutch goat status vs a guy who has under-performed considering his body and skills shoulda have been way better than Steph. Steph couldn't get a scholarship to a good school where Lebron got a scholarship to number 1 pick to nba and self-proclaimed king. And we have to think who has had the better career? One over-acheiver goat-like and one under-acheiver was supposed to be goat. Sorry Lebron still a great career. But was supposed to be goat and it never got there. With some chokable early years. You redeemed yourself some on being a total choker, but you never got to be the real goat Michael Jordan. Or as clutch as Steph!
Even Lebron knows Steph special. And when i mean Special like Jordan the best ever all around while Steph best ever shooter. And Lebron not best anything. The still a great career unless comparing him to goats.
Steph Curry has missed the playoffs in 41% of his seasons.
LeBron has made the Finals in 43% of his seasons. And that's assuming he doesn't get there this year.
FG - StEpH iS BeTeR ThAn lEBrOn.
Oh my bad. Your weren't admitting it and saying FG said it. But by pointing out the comparison you admitted it. Don't try to prove your point naming the baby-faced assasin. Steph never blinked either. While Lebron had dust in his eyes many times.
You can keep your primadonna self-proclaimed king. I'll rock with Steph! Curry 4 titles with only one good free agent ever brought to him. Lebron the goat-like rolodex of players to choose from to help him playing out of the super soft east also 4. Things that make you go hmmm?
Btw, Steph won before Durant got there and didn't need him. It was Durant that wanted to ride Steph's coattails becasue he knew who Steph was. No disrespect to Durant. Just saying he had choices and he chose Steph over Lebron. While one of his best buddies Lebron prolly trying to claim him forever. Durant chose a winner. Durant smart dude.
Wow. You finally admitted it. Best shooter in history with clutch goat status vs a guy who has under-performed considering his body and skills shoulda have been way better than Steph. Steph couldn't get a scholarship to a good school where Lebron got a scholarship to number 1 pick to nba and self-proclaimed king. And we have to think who has had the better career? One over-ache
Steph 4/16 last night with 4TOs. If LeBron had done that FG would have posted it 10 times already and have it in his cut and paste achieve for many years to come.
DK - Just in case you aren't aware of my background I'm a Warriors fan. I love Steph Curry only slightly less than my wife. I've watched every Curry game since the start of the 14-15 season.
There is no world where Steph is better at basketball than LeBron James.
Steph 4/16 last night with 4TOs. If LeBron had done that FG would have posted it 10 times already and have it in his cut and paste achieve for many years to come.
Steph playing with a g league unit where Lebron couldn't imagine ever not playing with the super elite. Then he'd lose and where casts at the press conference.
You can keep your primadonna self-proclaimed king. I'll rock with Steph! Curry 4 titles with only one good free agent ever brought to him. Lebron the goat-like rolodex of players to choose from to help him playing out of the super soft east also 4. Things that make you go hmmm?Btw, Steph won before Durant got there and didn't need him. It was Durant that wanted to ride Steph's
And, of course, you realise Durant teamed with Curry because Curry got schooled by LeBron and Draymond went crying to Durant to save them.
Drexler was a better player than Scottie Pippen. Scottie got the benefit of riding the coattails of not Batman, but Superman. Drexler made his career as a number 1. Scottie a nice 2. Scottie no Wade either. Not close. Drexler play with Jordan? LOL GAMEOVER!
You posted about Defense. Drexler is not in Scottie's world on defense.
