GOAT NBA Discussion: Biggest fraud poster: fallguy. Super AIDS Containment thread

I'll go with Horry. He was on the Lakers and Spurs.

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Pippen is 0/6 in matching Horry's game score from the 95' Finals

95' Horry...... 19.0 gamescore... 18/10/4/3/2 on 57 TS

92' Pippen.... 18.1 gamescore.... 21/8/7/2/1 on 56 TS
91' Pippen.... 17.5 gamescore.... 21/9/7/2/1 on 53 TS
93' Pippen.... 15.6 gamescore.... 20/9/8/2/1 on 46 TS
97' Pippen.... 15.1 gamescore.... 20/8/3/2/2 on 54 TS
96' Pippen.... 13.4 gamescore.... 16/7/5/2/1 on 43 TS
98' Pippen.... 13.0 gamescore.... 16/8/5/2/1 on 50 TS

I think you're right about Horry.

People forget that rookie Horry was a double-digit starter, while rookie Pippen was a single-digit bench player... Furthermore, 2nd year Pippen was choking in the 89' ECF, while 2nd-yead Horry was the 2nd-best player on the 94' title team.

Finally, 3rd-year Pippen had the historic migraine choke in 1990, while 3rd year Horry played better than Pippen ever did in the 95' Finals (see stats above).

^^^ This matters because Jordan clearly would've won titles from 88' to 90' with young Horry instead of young Pippen... Anyone decent could've replaced Pippen from 88' to 90' and won with Jordan.. And it shouldn't be surprising that peak Horry matched or exceeded Pippen's best because it's a low bar.

Thread Cliffs

Only the goats (MJ, Kobe) could win with the pure triangle (no primary ballhandler).

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Stats at 22 years old against the Spurs:

Kobe........ 33 on 51%
Lebron..... 22 on 35% (6 TO's)
Amare...... 37 on 55%

Lebron fans: "Lebron was the best 22 year old ever"

Reality: Lebron was vastly inferior at 22 to Kobe, Magic, MJ and many others.

In addition to 22 on 35% against the Spurs, Lebron averaged 26 on 35% against the 08' Celtics, while also melting down in 10' and 11', so young Lebron simply wasn't good enough to compete against championship comp - he was a perennial trainwreck in the playoffs until Wade showed him the way - this is the historical record.

We know that Pippen's playmaking help wasn't needed in the triangle because Kobe won 5 chips with zero playmaking help... Let that sink in - a poor man's MJ didn't need Pippen... Kobe's 4-6 APG was enough for the triangle.

Furthermore, other 1st options enjoyed 10 APG from all-time floor generals like Stockton, Payton, KJ or Hardaway, while Jordan was stuck with Pippen's 5 APG and the least playmaking help in the league... Ultimately, the Bulls would've won easier by upgrading their league-worst rim protection and replacing Pippen with a shooter (like Horry).

I mean, I think most people agree that if you replaced Pippen with peak Shaq, Bull probably would have been okay.

Pau was a 1x all-star before joining Kobe and averaged less than 19 ppg for both titles.

So again, we know that Pippen's playmaking help wasn't needed in the triangle because Kobe won with zero playmaking help.. Kobe's 4-6 APG was enough for the triangle.

It's just another way we know that Pippen is vastly overrated by modern fans... I say modern fans because fans didn't rate Pippen highly in the 90's.. He was considered completely carried and the stats show that he's the most carried player ever..

As the most carried player ever, he didn't deserve MVP votes in seasons that MJ played.. Imagine if Jalen Williams was 5th for MVP - it would be absurd, but that's how the media treated Pippen, due to the unprecedented winning spotlight and association with the goat .

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LEBRON FAN LOGIC APPLIED TO OTHER PLAYERS

"Detroit is the 1 seed but Cade clearly has no help - he can't win there and it's absurd to think he ever could.

Accordingly, he needs to ditch Detroit and make a trio of Cade, Jaylen Brown and Bam, similar to Lebron/Wade/Bosh.

Again, management hasn't done right by Cade so he should leave."

(and then after the big 3 wins the East, bron fans say "can you believe Cade/Brown/Bam won the conference again??.. It's amazing.. What an achievement.. Goat stuff from Cade")

Cade is as good as prime Lebron for sure

So the best player is the only guy that's allowed or entitled to team up, but not the #7 guy like Cade?

That makes no sense, and the point is that teaming up with other franchise players is bad regardless of who does it.

But let's go ahead and use your logic by replacing Cade with Jokic in the example... Currently, Jokic must win with Jamal Murray and role players - he doesn't get to team-up with SGA and Senguin (Wade/Bosh).... And when this big 3 wins the West, they shouldn't get props for it - people shouldn't be like "can you believe Jokic/SGA/Senguin won the conference again??.. Goat stuff"...

However, this is exactly the thinking that people have about Lebron's team-ups - they're impressed when Lebron wins the East after putting the top 3 scorers in the conference on 1 team, or barely winning 50 games with the preseason favorite, thereby falling to perennial underdog.. This is goat stuff to Lebron fans.

I am so so bored of this

Jordan is the GOAT
LeBron is the Chosen One

he had sky high expectations coming into the league and met/surpassed all of them.
he also could've been a good NBA player at the age of 16 (he was more than holding his own in scrimmages vs pros at that age).

/thread

FIN

Imagine if prime LeBron had lost as a favourite in the first round in 6 games to a team that didn't have their best player.

FG would have posted about it 45 times already.

Still think Joker is better than LeBron?

Jokic is unreal great. He's hurt. Had a bad game 28/10/9. Yes, that's a bad game for jokic. Just not anyone else. He hasn't been the same since his midseason injury. It most shows in shooting the 3. Also comes up short sometimes now on his mid-range inside the foul line floater.

But he's not why they lost the game, or series. Why would anyone have to respeond to if a team lost becasue their player only put up 28/10/9. They lost becasue Murray was super cold. I like Murray, he's a great player, but when he's cold it's really cold. He'll comeback but he had a bad game. But also he has no help. Gordon hurt. But the roster in general is not that good. Nuggets need a big name two-way player to help Jokic, Murray, and Gordon. Also Minnesota's best player did play the 1st 4 and a half games of the series.

There's someone else who was supposed to win when they went up 3-0. Now it's on serve. They should win. But the fact that it's in question isn't a great look either. But i don't hear any talk about that. I won't say anything about how they lost those last 2 games because i'm starting a new leaf of positivity, but hoping you guys would so as to be fair.

Mocking Cade vs Lebron? I don't know about that. Remember Cade is an elite shooter. And he plays by himself. I wonder how he'd look on the heat with Wade and Bosh???

I'm just trying to apply the same logic as FG.

Joker had an All Star teammate this year. Minny had one all star who was either injured or not playing.

Joker has never beaten a 50 win team in the playoffs. He's just completed his 11th year in the league.

With the exception of the Championship, he has only one other conference finals appearance, where he lost 4-1.

Somehow FG still rates Joker > LeBron.

If LeBron had those stats he would make a mockery of it.

Also, most people are expecting the Rockets to win 4-3.

Chokic

Whose most people? And if so why? You think most people would think Jordan, Jokic, or Kobe would probably lose when they were up 3-0, and now even at up 3-2 would most likely lose? Especially game 7 in their own building?

And now i'm gonna hear he's old, 41. Show me where Lebron has lost a step? He's the most conditioned athlete in basketball. He looks the fastest and most agile on the court. I know you gonna laugh but i bet Lebron at 41 is "younger" than Jokic at 31(jokic looks exhausted at end of games but still plays great). Meaning Lebron takes care of his body so good he's in better condition than Jokic. Lebron's problem isn't because he's old. He plays the same way as he's always played. Someday Lebron gonna lose something but i haven't seen it yet. Have you? He's just gotta stop turning the ball over in crucial spots, and also stop settling for 3's. 3's are low percentage for Lebron. Where if he drives and scores, gets fouled, or dishes is high percentage.

Btw Jordan at 40 averaged 20 a game and played all 82 games. And with advancements in health 41 today is like prolly 31 back in jordan's day. Especially for a guy like Lebron that really take care of his body.

Yes, it's an age thing. I wouldn't expect 41 year old Jordan, Jokic, or Kobe to win either. Difference is, I wouldn't expect them to be up 3-2.

What does he not do today that he did before? In fact he shoots better today then when he was younger. It's commendable to lebron's fitness.

If you think LeBron is as good now as he was at his prime, I'm not going to be able to add much.

Up their with your takes about Dumars.

So the answer is you can't think of anything. Me neither. Like i said commendable to Lebron's fitness. If you really believe Lebron lost 100 steps what year was it? Should be obvious if it's that many steps. 100 steps c'mon bro lol. I'm sure he's lost something, maybe, but if he has it's so slight we can't put a finger on it.

Dumars was a great scorer. And you, yourself said he was a great defender. I guess that equals him being bad at basketball? You talk about Lebron like he's a superhero while you underrate Dumars.

Joe Duuuummmaaaaarrssss!!!!!!!! Legend!

That's how good LeBron was. He can lose 100 steps and still be a Top 30 player in the league.

Joe Dumars had one season where he averaged more than 20.4 point per game.

Do you believe Pippen was a great scorer?