Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
anyway, this all started with me posting a video of paramedics, not journalists, being slaughtered. you are going to blame for tending to wounded children?
They are using a strategy that many believe is a war crime and I would tend to agree. The initial strike in this case was also questionable. The goals of the strike are obviously to disrupt emergency services associated with or assisting Hezbollah and allied groups.
Of course they will tend to wounded children, but they will also attend to militants. Israel is basically operating under the belief that anyone that gives material aid to the enemy is a potential target, including journalists and emergency personnel. I would agree this is likely against international law.
It is notable that Russia also uses a similar double tap strategy, not that it makes it any better.
The Israeli human rights group B'Selem has issued another big report on systematic rape and torture of prisoners.
one of the soldiers raped me. He shoved a wooden stick up my anus, left it there for about a minute, and pulled it out. Then he shoved it back in, even harder, and I screamed at the top of my lungs. After a minute, he pulled the stick out again, told me to open my mouth, pushed the stick into my mouth and forced me to lick it. I was flooded with feelings of injustice and humiliation. The insult was so powerful, I passed out for a few minutes.
The Israeli human rights group B'Selem has issued another big report on systematic rape and torture of prisoners.
“I screamed at the top of my lungs” “I was flooded with feelings of injustice and humiliation”.
Where do they get these actors?
So does Israel have a right to exist then? Why did you invoke Israel not having a right to exist? Is that just ******ed leftist sloganeering?
Not as an apartheid regime.
And dog torturer.
All Israeli citizens have the same rights. If you live in Gaza or the West Bank not so much. As a result of rocket attacks, suicide bombings, Jihads and intifadas these people live under strict security. If you are well behaved and not a terrorist you can work in Israel. Unfortunately security is extra tight for these people. It’s similar to after 911 security at our airports became more tight. Bad apples ruin it for everybody. Israel doesn’t do this to be mean. When they built the walls the suicide bombings stopped.
In conclusion, Apartheid is not the correct word to use to describe the situation.
All Israeli citizens have the same rights. If you live in Gaza or the West Bank not so much. As a result of rocket attacks, suicide bombings, Jihads and intifadas these people live under strict security. If you are well behaved and not a terrorist you can work in Israel. Unfortunately security is extra tight for these people. It’s similar to after 911 security at our airports b
I agree Apartheid is not the right word to use, but if the allegations of the torture networks are true that might be worse than the Apartheid allegations.
Muhammad Shehada Tweets:
An insanely generous offer has been on the table for 24 years that would get 56 Muslim countries to immediately normalize relations with Israel if it would only give Palestinians 22% of our land
Every single Israeli government rejected it! It’s called the Arab Peace Initiative
I agree Apartheid is not the right word to use, but if the allegations of the torture networks are true that might be worse than the Apartheid allegations.
Apartheid is the word Jimmy Carter used about the West Bank, because it's ethnically segregated by area, with ethnic 'pass laws' like apartheid South Africa, because the Arabs are non-citizens denied the franchise, because they are denied property rights (Jews can murder them and seize their land at will with absolute impunity and frequently do so), and because there are roads and even footpaths that only Jews can use, with Arabs liable to be shot on sight if the IDF or the settlers spot them 'trespassing', since martial law-plus has been in force, illegally, since 1967, a set-up which on the whole is possibly worse than apartheid South Africa.
All this and the quite well-attested torture and rape of Arab detainees too. It's not good, frankly.
Apartheid is the word Jimmy Carter used about the West Bank, because it's ethnically segregated by area, with ethnic 'pass laws' like apartheid South Africa, because the Arabs are non-citizens denied the franchise, because they are denied property rights (Jews can murder them and seize their land at will with absolute impunity and frequently do so), and because there are roads
The West Bank isn’t considered Israeli territory, it’s occupied territory. The people there are not Israeli citizens. Within Israel proper, Arab citizens are not treated that way. Maybe they are discriminated against de facto, but not de jure. So the idea that there is racial apartheid doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny, at least not by the historical definition of apartheid, despite whatever turn of phrase Jimmy Carter used.
I guess it's technically not apartheid if you're ethnically cleansing the minorities instead of letting them live in their own little Bantustan.
I guess it's technically not apartheid if you're ethnically cleansing the minorities instead of letting them live in their own little Bantustan.
I don’t know what the word “technically” is adding in “not technically apartheid”. If it’s not technically apartheid then it’s not apartheid. Apartheid is a specific thing.
I'm not sure the dog thing is really possible. The stick-of-wood thing, though, is all too possible.
You've never had your leg humped?
What physical barrier prevents a dog penis from penetrating an anus or vagina?
And even if the dog doesn't fully penetrate, isn't it just as much of a savage humiliation?
I'm sure that if you think about it carefully and maybe seek the help of an English teacher, you'll figure it out.
As an aside, I've never understood the "does x country have the right to exist?" thing, whether towards Israel or any other country.
As far as I can tell, a "right" is just a usually unwritten and often ill-defined suggestion (originally wrote "rule", but that's inaccurate) which is deemed to be beneficial to humans and is assumed that some critical mass of people implicitly agree is good. You can't taste, smell, feel, hear, or measure a right. There's no organization or arbiter who defines "rights" that is accepted by the majority of people. The Bill of Rights is just a list of things that a bunch of old dudes thought wouldn't unnecessarily victimize citizens (at least the citizens they regarded as fully human). I don't dislike the Bill of Rights; I just regard it with no more value than I do "Ben Franklin's 10 Suggestions for a Cool Country" or whatever.
Rights are a myth. No country has the right to exist or right to defend themselves which isn't arbitrarily created out of thin air by the leaders of the country in question.
Much more importantly, Israel should stop murdering people en masse, but the pro-murder crowd ain't changing their stance on that any time soon, so here we are.
It’s a defensible position what you just put forth. It’s why I was asking what the poster who said “Israel doesn’t have a right to exist” what he means by rights. I appreciate you explaining what rights means to you, because under that construal, neither Israel or Palestine has a right to exist.
The only reason to use that phraseology is to borrow from the liberal worldview which really does believe in rights. Essentially they just mean “boo Israel” if that’s what “rights” means.
Colloquial English can be tricky sometimes, but don't become discouraged.
The West Bank isn’t considered Israeli territory, it’s occupied territory. The people there are not Israeli citizens. Within Israel proper, Arab citizens are not treated that way. Maybe they are discriminated against de facto, but not de jure. So the idea that there is racial apartheid doesn’t really stand up to scrutiny, at least not by the historical definition of apartheid,
Arab countries have been condemning Israel regarding the Palestinians because they feared Iran. Now they are realizing that it’s Iran not Israel who is the enemy. They see the strength of Israel. They need Israel’s intelligence and technology. If the Arab countries sign the Abraham accords it’s over for Iran. Also, I think the Arab countries are over the Palestinian drama.
A reminder that torture is official policy.
