2/5 ~ being pushed around by 4bets

A 5x raise looks like scared money. And you've already folded to 4B twice so they've got to think it'sa possibilityagain. I'm not calling 300 with AQ so it's fold or shove.

So you've got to ask yourself, "Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya, punk?"

I'm folding because if he doesn't fold, I'm at best flipping. Does he have a fold button at this point? You shouldn't be sticking 125 out there with AQo if you don't know.

Well nobody is folding to a 600 shove when they committed 300 already

Why are you always sitting so short stacked?

Why are you 3B'ing AQo for this size, over an aggro V's open, if you're not willing to either snap fold or snap jam?

I mean, I get the 5x 3B sizing, but you're only starting $600 deep. If he calls, you'll have have less than 2 SPR on the flop. What's your plan? Just get it in on any board Q-high or lower? Pray to make TPTK?

I dunno man. We could have seen a flop with an under-repped hand for $25. Odds are V isn't likely to bluff into three opponents post. We might have been able to play some poker.

Now we're trying to figure out what to do with the 47th nuts in a spot where V literally has no 4B-fold range if we 5B-jam.

If he's really hyper aggressive, I guess we just jam and pray. But I don't like it, and I won't be shocked if he has a better hand this time.

Lots of aggressive players will open wide and 3B light. When all the money goes in, they tend to have it

Flat AQ if you are getting 4! a lot. You don't want a difficult decision.

Flat preflop and fold as played. If you are getting 4! a lot, 3! hands you can gii with or some that are easy folds to the 4!.

I wouldn't have 3B. So I wouldn't need to make that decision. As played, I think snap fold is better than snap jam, even with our read. Maybe especially with it.

I love being the guy who is constantly raising and 3B'ing. When I 4B here, I just always have it. And I get paid because opponents get tired of my $hlt and decide to take a stand with AQo.

I like raising with reckless abandon whenever my opponents aren't going to punish me by playing back at me. You've been 4B by two different opponents at this table. Dafuq are you doing, 3B'ing AQo while playing off a short stack?

Why are you short-stacking in this action game wherein multiple opponents are 4B'ing? Get some money out of the ATM and get it on the table.

This thread?

https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink/topic?u...

I said you could flat call or 3B, and you could also fold. You gave zero reads.

AQ is a hand you open for a raise. It's a hand you can 3B when you're deep. It's not a hand you want to take to war.when you're short stacked and looking at a 2 SPR post flop and you'll be OOP.

Agreed. Hence my fold.

And I'm probably going home or at least going for a long walk and changing tables when I get back.

It doesn't sound like OP is ready for this table. My win rate has gone way up since I decided to walk away from tables that don't suit my game. If OP lacks the patience or experience to deal with ...ahem...manliness measuring contests, he's going to keep losing big chunks of a buy in in hands where he doesn't even see a flop.

We load up to 1k then 5b jam every hand we 3bet?

You hinted at the end I should 3bet

No. Load up to $1k. Don't 3B AQo at a table full of aggro opponents, at least three of whom appear to have a 4B range. Definitely don't 5B jam AQo. Just play poker.

Why are you trying to force things in a game like this? Let the game come to you.

You were IP and had the opportunity to ISO over a raise over a limp. You gave us zero info to go on.

Here you're OOP, trying to ISO over a limp, a raise, and a call. You told us you're getting beaten up by opponents' 4B's.

Do you really not see the difference?

I'll 3B with AQo all day when I'm playing deep, and IP, and I know my opponents won't 4B anything other than AAlKK.

I also do a lot of flatting with AQo, especially when playing shallow, OOP, or if I know my opponents aren't over-folding to my 3B's when they're IP.

i think 3b / fold pre is the best option by far at both decision points

think its all in your head about all this game flow and getting run over, but likely you are 3betting too much. arent you the guy who told me you 3b 15% or something online? maybe look at pre charts and realize how tight people are playing at 8/9 handed tables

Seems weird this needs to be said, but yes, AQo should be 3B...sometimes. It should also be insta folded sometimes. We can even find some progressively rarer situations where it can properly be 4B and 5B.

I'm lost as to why that is up for debate. It's the individual circumstances that matter.

I play differently live.

You're the one who always remind me to 3b in my threads. I don't even 3bet much once I'm already actively 3betting or in situations where I thought flatting might be ok. Then you'll still say it's a 3b hand etc. How flatting is bad etc.

i think you should 3b and then you have a (clear) fold to 4b in this hand

it seems like you take alot of what's fairly standard preflop aggression from "regs" way too personally, likely because you aren't really playing theory / chart based.

have told u this but 30 mins looking at charts on gtow going to help u infinitely more than whatever conversation is happening here. you are asking people who dont play against competent players regularly for advice on how to play against them

Won’t touch too much on the preflop decision but your 3b here is completely fine, wide opener range and potential dead $ from BTN when we squeeze them out.

It obviously sucks to be facing yet another 4b in such a short span, but taking out the emotional aspect - our hand is not strong enough to continue. Live poker in general 4bets are going to be fairly strong, don’t let the small sample mess with your head. You will have strong hands here after you 3b, don’t stress about the painful fold here. Something else to note here - in cash games when live players use a 4b size that commits 50% + of their stack rather than just jamming like they should (LOL) from my experience it is more top-end heavy portion of range. It is usually designed to get you to continue wider.

facing 4b in model i set up. it doesnt have open limper and has co isoing 20% and btn flatting ~.5%. i think both of those numbers will be higher so an already pure squeeze initially with AQo likely becomes even better (though the limper does detract from ev a bit because i would think his traps slightly outweight the 1bb dead he contributes but realistically wont change the outputs much). anyways hugely losing play to continue without more information than you've provided

Charts don't tell you v is 4b bluffing
Charts don't tell you to fold to passive fishes opens when they obviously have top of range.
Charts don't tell you how aggro villain and how you should fight back.

Charts told you to 3bet flop w/tptk vs fishes?

i not really sure what to tell you man. do you really want to play am i smarter than a computer while you struggle at 2/5 live?

if you want i am happy to stop posting in your threads and you can continue to do whatever it is you're doing here

I'm not saying computer is wrong etc.
But does computer know your opponent? If your opponent deviate from the standard play yet you still rely on the standard computer plays??

When on earth does gto open more than 3bb ever? 3bets are 20+bb?

Btw, I appreciate all your advices and help.

But words like just study the charts don't help much.

It's like a fellow poster posting here, if I go to his threads and tell him you suck, just study more, learn them fundamentals, oh btw stop posting these hands because everyone else here sucks as well. They should learn them basics as well. Wala, poker is easy, just study ffs. How would he/they feel?

if you have clairvoyance on your opponents strategy there would be no point to post the hand. i think posting hands is fine but you're asking a common preflop spot (squeeze pre and face 4b) and neither you nor anyone in the thread knows the answer or even how to find it. the answer is legitimately going to be look at solved preflop charts. i even simmed it for you with your exact sizings / stack sizes so we can see what you might be losing by choosing an alternative. is the ev of the solve going to be 100% accurate? probably not. is it going to be closer than the streams of consciousness going on in this thread / most others? probably so. even if you reject math or think theres multiple approaches or whatever things people keep telling me on here, it gives you a baseline to start from as opposed to nothing.

im not trying to be mean when i tell you that gtow or similar is going to be your savior for the games you are describing. this forum, for the most part, is not going to be able to help you play against aggressive regulars / competent opponents. yes that makes people angry because they have their identity tied up in being "good" at poker, but the aggregate skill level here is very low compared to the "modern game" or whatever you want to call the current iteration of poker. thats maybe fine for playing in softer games with mostly loose passive recs but that isn't really the game you are trying to figure out how to beat.

i get my tone can get off brusque but read what im saying without that intention

re the hand you are allowed to fold the bottom of your range always when facing aggression. its ok to get bluffed. as long as you're "balanced" and you understand your strategy and know that you're not folding too often, he is going to be making your value hands way more profitable than they have any right to be. yes it sucks when you have a combo to fold and he turns over something stupid but that's why we try to analyze the game in strategies / ranges / ev as opposed to a carnival game where you try to guess your opponents hand. im not even necessarily saying you shouldn't 5b jam here, we could find assumptions that would make it the case, but i think you want significantly more than whats written in the thread to justify what can potentially be a very very large error

I almost never raise preflop from the big blind, because it’s so hard to overcome being out of position.

Are people 4Betting you because they see you 3betting light? Have they discovered that they can make you fold with a 4bet?

I would be in my wheelhouse with AA or KK facing 300. Are you raising AJo, how about ATo?

This looks like an easy call of 25 and defend the big blind. Instead, you don’t even get to see a flop.

It comes down to the fact that if you want to play mediocre hands OOP against aggressive opponents….

Personally, I like the opposite: playing strong hands in position.

But you see, being retired, all I have is time. I feel no need to make something happen, I just wait for good situations.

You actually created a bad situation for yourself being aggressive in the wrong spot.

Doyle Brunson once said that he almost always folded AQo, a classic trouble hand.

Maybe a bit off topic.

But I think posting hands here might act as a catalyst to stimulate my brain for thinking a bit more. Sure others offer insights as well. Even though others don't play the same game. Just being open to new ideas might bring some new ways to think about the game. A pro(maybe it was marc goone) said thinking about poker helps you get better, and I agree.

I wasn't really trying to ask for a specific answer to this hand. I think this goes for all my hands. But rather the approach to the game itself.
Like this thread was trying to see if others have a plan for a game where opponents 4b at a high frequency.

I was wondering whether it'd be better to 3b tighter ranges or 5b jam lighter.

Tbh, if this were online there wouldn't even be a post. Because I'd just snap jam and treat it as variance whether I'm ahead or behind. But more for the meta game.
Meta game is a bit useless live especially when I'm playing like 25 hands/hr. Unless I play with the same villain everyday.
Each and every hand counts for live games. Can't even brush it off and call it variance when ranges are a bit different. Way of thinking and play style is way different as well.

In case you were curious theory side the optimal line if this came up online: (took out the limper for simplicity) 125BB deep w/ regular sizings vs CO open, BTN flat you 3b BB and CO 4b - you should be jamming range of QQ+, AKo/AKs, mixing JJ jam/call w/ a tiny sprinkling of jam with AA and A5s. AQo is pure folded, pretty sizable mistake as either jam or call. Interestingly the solver plays AA at some frequency here similar to how a live fish would a portion of the time, 5b clicking to 48% of its stack. Balances this w/ A5s, AKs and tiny frequency QQ/JJ/TT.

Side note for your comment regarding “meta purposes” for online, answer is boring here but I would suggest aiming towards just trying to play each hand individually best you can with fundamentals. Even at high-stakes online you will see people trying to “ego/meta-game”, and it is quite costly to their bottom line.

Should also mention AA plays majority as a trap just call the 4b to punish CO thin/polar portion and protect your flatting region.