2023-2024 NC/LC THREAD

Do you guys think the high rake should also make you defend your BB significantly less than you would in a time game (particularly in headsup pots)?

I think it's damn near impossible to beat the rake BvB when it was $5/hand let alone $8 per hand. Over 100 hands that's 20 BB/100 going to rake assuming full rake.

Well, one bright side is that the extra $3 goes to PSJ/HH so you get some of that back anyway, plus if you don’t chop you will win some high hands and jackpots you normally wouldn’t.

When casinos take money out for promotions, they usually only give 15-20% back to the players.

I can’t speak to the bigger places but that’s not at all how it’s been at the poker rooms I’ve worked in. They took out a small percentage for facilitating it but it was less than 15%, if not less than 5%.

It would be quite an interesting dynamitic but it probably possible to be +ev . You going to get a lot of free passes and people would defend way less. Don't peel marginal gutter. Could donk check fold on a numbers of flop texture w your Ax. Probably be -ev against certain player though the loose maniac who will over defend/open and peel light etc. Also playing helps you develop more skill at bvb but you could also do quicker online. But this question remind me of this story by Charlie Munger though.

https://x.com/YahooFinance/status/112471...

Now that’s what I’m talking about! The man at the top of the food chain says it could be a thing. Also, to be fair, I quit chopping before I asked the question. [emoji6]

I’m not one to shy away from bad results so I’ll share my data here, however insignificant it may be.

This is way off unless most casinos are violating regulations and getting away with it. I believe in Las Vegas all the promo money has to be used to benefit players and in most other jurisdictions they are only allowed to keep a small part for administrative expenses, usually around 10%.

I still dislike having the promos though.

They introduced 20/40 mix at my room and I’m interested to see if that continues to move people away from holdem. Early evidence suggests that it will.

After 20 years we are getting new chips tomorrow. Big week

I still have a Schneids chip.

Is that Canterbury Park? What games are in the mix? Does the 40/80 mic still run?

Commerce 20/40. Pot is capped 8 ways PF. Flop is A72r. How many people have sets?

1.8 on average.

Less than one on average. The only thing I am certain of is that someone has a deuce.

You are correct that someone had at least one deuce.

I just tried to find out how much of the promotional rake goes back to the players. It looks like Washington isn't allowed to screw the players like California and Florida, so there is a good chance you are getting most of it back in theory.

I can't find any exact numbers, but California apparently allows the casinos to find all sorts of bs reasons to withhold jackpot money. Florida is supposed to be pretty bad too.

When I first started playing live, I assumed that the players got most of the jackpot rake back. When I said so out loud at Commerce 40/80, I got laughed at by the whole table. A nice reg who was a huge math nerd told me that we get about 16% of it back. The rest of the table nodded in agreement.

I mostly played 60/120 where it was time with no jackpot, so I never bothered to dive deeper. That's pretty cool though if Washington casinos really give 80+% back. Recs love their promos, so that has to be great for the game quality.

so how big was the final pot, like $3k?

Somewhere in the neighborhood of 3 racks. It went 3 bets 3 ways on the turn and 1 bet 3 ways on the river.

And Washington has “good” promos running constantly. I get like $6k+ back on average every year and I struggle to play even 30 hours a week.

Yes; while I would prefer not to have any promos, the way it is mostly done in WA casinos, with frequent high hand bonuses, is far better than having extremely rare large jackpots.

Eh, it kind of depends on when you play and when the promos run. In most casinos, the BBJ is running 24/7. The smaller promos are usually run on non-peak days/hours to drive traffic during those times. If you only play during peak hours, your jackpot contribution is being used to subsidize promos you don't partake in. At least everyone has a fair shot at the BBJ proportional to how many hands they play.

Plus, in markets with some measure of competition, a big BBJ can really drive traffic to a room during all hours.

It seems like they would do that, but actually in the two largest poker rooms in Washington, the bonuses are better during the times more people are already playing, weekends, afternoons, and evenings. The people who play in the middle of the night have to contribute to the fund but get back much less.

In my experience in places with lots of competition, BBJs move players around from one casino to another but don't bring in people who wouldn't have played otherwise. When I played regularly in Atlantic City, the low limit players would mostly go to whatever casino had the biggest jackpot, then when it would hit they would go to a different casino which now had the biggest jackpot. Without a BBJ, they would have stayed put in whatever room they preferred for other reasons.

Has anyone tried paying themselves a "salary" at the end of each month instead of just rolling with the swings? I remember this idea being suggested by some old school pros.

Example: You have averaged 8k/month for the past 2 years and already play the highest LHE stakes in your city, so you decide to give yourself an 8k/month salary for the next year no matter how good or bad you run. And let's assume that your bankroll is on the conservative side, and that you can easily withdraw from your savings if a terrible streak of runbad hits.

I am wondering if this could add some extra "iciness" to our play at the tables since we are less connected to our short-term results... less win-locking, less fear when we make thin plays, feeling more human, etc.

Whatcha think?

I’m not a pro any longer but I did something similar. I gave myself a $2000/month salary ($400/week cash) but also budgeted all reoccurring expenses - rent, electric etc. The cash was mostly used for food and hookers but it helped stabilize things

I've thought about this myself, but really I spend very little apart from necessities so it's not really that important.

It could do what you say, but it also could lead to you playing fewer hours, so you might want to make it hourly instead of monthly, unless your schedule is completely fixed.