PokerOK (Russian GGPoker skin) CEO went fully unhinged. Stables / winning players banned.

I would really like to hear clarification on this topic from GG Poker. If this is the position of the entire network, then let them make an official statement. But overall the situation is terrible(

you literally are tho. your a mod and probably owner for sixplusholdem which works with stables and last I heard had a stable. You might not be in a stable but you are affiliated with stables. Probably Russian ones

Anyway I have no problem with you guys defending this its awful for poker. but your heavily connected to the affiliate/ stable world so can we at least be honest. But like everyone else in the poker world you only care when it affects you. Thats also fine admit it and maybe we can move on to working together to stop this scumbag company

Say it with me guys. Its ok to post in your self interest own it. I didn't see you posting here when I found a bot ring. Or the other 50 scandals gg has had in the past year

^^^ Mic drop!

I'm a russian mod, i don't have any stake in sixplusholdem.com
The stable you are referring to is not russian, it's polish, it was just a post because owners played under 6+ affiliate on gg back in 2019-2020
barely 3 players from that group are active players right now.
And what about you? Didn't enjoy your time in TTM?
About the bot ring, you have a very short memory, because i remember asking you a ton of questions about it

Also is this just the Russian skin doing this? or could this carry over to the main site. GG is already an unregulated mostly illegal site so playing on it already is kind of dumb but I understand some people with no choice do so.

But if its is just the super illegal Russian skin that Russian regs launder money on to avoid global sanctions that's a completely different thing. Russians should be lucky they are even allowed to play on ggpoker tbh.

Russian poker is weird because of the sanctions. this means you bring almost zero fish to the pool while supplying only regs. Lets say a standard country gives 80% recs 20%regs to the pool. Because of the sanctions only winning players are going to jump through the hoops to bypass the sanctions and deposit. So if this is only the super scammy russian skin doing this your going to have a hard time finding support from westerners like me who mostly think you shouldn't even be allowed to play on the site.

Even if we think you should be free to play poker your just not bringing in your fair share of fish so its really hard for me to get behind supporting the blood suckers of the poker economy. Your choosing to play on untrust worthy sites

to be fair you have no choice if you want to play poker but its still a choice you make. When you choose to play on a very very shitty skin on a very shitty site you kinda should expect to eat ****.

Ya you did ask me a question but you never made a 2+2 account for it which was my point. Its not fair to you because everyone would do the same but its kinda whats going to happen to you here I think.

I do think the poker community has a serious problem of working together and I want to support you but I don't think this is the event thats gonna start that step. Anyway I didn't really mean to bash you and single you out everyones guilty of this .Im more pro Russian then most. Im just annoyed at everyone not you. People only ever care about this stuff when it effects them. The poker community should have stopped playing on gg along time ago

The people responding to you are all recs who don't even know the difference between the two skins so they are all wrong about it but for the wrong reason. This skin is so wild on one hand that works for you because they are crazy enough to get Russians on the site. But at the same time if they are crazy enough to do that they can do other crazy stuff no? Weird situation. Your best bet is to petition to the main gg skin to not allow these crazy mfers to do what they want. but if you do that they might pull the plug on russian poker? tough spot. Do any other sites let russians play? I haven't been in the loop on global for a bit due to ring fence stuff

Pokerok CEO doesn't accuse them of violating any rules. His message is that they play too good and create too much regs. He stated that he sees future of Pokerok without any winning people. It's obvious that winning stand-alone regs will be next target and everyone who won something can't be 100% sure he will be able to cash-out his winnings there. The main question is that is strategy of all GG Network and they test on Russian market and if there is no wide coverage and resistance from community they will spread it to other markets. Or that is Ivan's personal initiative on his room.

Come back to PS... Its soft and nice

A lot of sites let russians play, WPN network for example. Btw there are tons of russian recreational players on GG, at micro and low stakes for sure, more than regulars. Everyone hopes to get that bounty jackpot nowadays, calling 4bet showes with 94s lol

According to the CEO of Pokerok this will carry over to the whole network. "I don't need regulars. If you want poker to be a sport, too bad. We won't have this on GG. Everyone will be losing, there will be no winning players on a distance, there will be no professional players. You have to hear this, it will not be a thing. It will be a casino". That's the exact translation of what he said. And he assured everyone that it's the direction the whole GG is taking. Everything has been allegedly approved by the managent.

how can a skin that's marketed towards Russian pro players ever not be full of a majority winning regs? There are no Russian recs. They are not going to bother to buy crypto to circumvent the western boycot on Russian banking/swift. And even if they did their gdp is too low to match the recs of other countrys. Its such a weird take from this CEO. It makes me wonder if he is under pressure from the people he answers to.

all the transparent legitimate sites like pokerstars don't let them play as far as I know its just the scummy vpn/bot infested sites like gg and acr which unfortunately have a pretty big market share now but those two sites are at the bottom of my trust rankings.

And when I say they have no recs. I more mean they have no recs that donate at reasonable stakes. A couple Russian recs playing 5 cent 10 cent is not going to offput their high ratio of winning regs across all stakes. As a Russian do you mind explaining the complicated process of depositing and withdrawing from these sites. Because I don't think alot of recs are going to bother with it.

There are many ways to deposit for them, besides crypto. All the domestic payment options are available. I play micro stakes, have most russians marked as recreationals or as crazy gamblers, very few decent regs compared to this crowd... of fun loving optimists 😃

Ya my knowledge of Russian money issues are probably outdated/wrong which is why I asked. I just remember all the Russian regs on gg moving down stakes when the war started because they couldn't deposit but that was a long time ago. Someone told me it was because they were all sharing liquidity and stables etc couldn't reload

It's a pity that Stars left. WPN is not that bad though, and keeps getting better imo. There is also Chico, iPoker, some other rooms, besides GG.
Already answered about deposits. Withdrawals are also easy. For Chico you have to use crypto, no other option. GG makes depositing as easy as possible.

Yeah, and that's the tactic Scamerok uses to derail discussion. If they were able to think straight, like normal human beings:
If there's a problem with stables "cheating", security should ban them. But we all know how well they fight cheating:
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
And no reports or data on fighting cheating ever presented to public/customers. Always regs finding shitload of bots, report them, and then after months of delays they disappear. Ofc no refunds, no thank you, just less rakeback to those doing security's job for them. And now mining is ultimate sin, so that becomes bannable offense.

If there's a problem with reg/fish ratios or success of stables, why not use bookmaker's way of dealing with winning players? As you said, we are accustomed to all kind of shitty treatment, at least that one would be understandable. They don't want you winning this much? Limit # of tournaments you can play. Or just deny service, but withdraw the balance.
There's no problem with stables to be solved here.

Instead this animal freezes 100+ players denying them ability to withdraw & boasts about it. Threatens & insults them like he is Rick James from Dave Chappelle skit.
Meanwhile stables that kiss his ass get notes of other users shared with them.
Also send their shill Inner here to post that there's no support. But scamerok always has support of their paid ambassadors, who never answer questions about client security holes, bots/RTA that play for months and hundreds of accounts being hacked into.

So if anything of what scamerokCEO said about "GG approved this" is true:
1) Ontario/Brazil/etc skin could be run by similar upstanding citizen. And then there would be no surprise when stuff like that happens
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
2) GG will start culling regs and not by usual methods of announced rakeback reductions etc. Not their style to treat clients like people. More shady ****, more hidden fees & cutbacks more bans of winning players. And don't expect any protection from these top regs w/o trace of existence

Spoiler

Show

hey, GG SN - KOPOBA. mostly played 6+
I am not and never have been a member of the stable.

GG may not pay out jackpots won at AoF tables, as in my case.
There was no dialogue, even though I made profit for Pokerok in the amount of several Ferraris. 😀 The winnings were immediately withdrawn from the balance.

It would be interesting to hear the answer from the chief CEO or developer.
(and not from post-Soviet CEO morons, whose method is blackmail and clownery). -_-

Caption on the screenshot:

Unfortunately, there has been an error where the jackpot prize is being awarded to your balance in a hand in which you were not eligible to receive the jackpot. Accordingly, we have withdrawn the jackpot from your balance.

The difficulties of translation are not a joke. In the Russian language, the terms "fund", "school", and "stable" differ mainly in terms of emotional coloring. After all, not all players like to be "horses", much more honorable is to be "students". But after communicating with guys from the English-speaking community, it became clear that in English, there is quite a significant difference between the definitions of "stable" and "coaching for profit".

Let's start by formulating the main points that define the relationship between a player and a fund. There are usually two of them - education and backing. The player receives training in strategy and poker-related aspects, sometimes some additional services (psychological assistance, etc.), and in return, gives a part of the profit that he earns during the game. Also, he may (but not necessarily) receive backing, which essentially allows others to invest money in the buy-in of the tournaments he plays. These things can be combined or separate.

Neither backing nor poker training is prohibited on GGPoker. So why is there such a wave of negativity towards funds? It seems that the issue is that there is a third component of the possible relationships between a fund/school/stable and players. And it is this component that can potentially cause conflicts of interest, arouse suspicions of unfair play, and so on.

In the relationships described above, between backer-player and coach-player, each individual player acts independently of each other. Player John makes a profit, shares a part of it with Michael, who sponsors or teaches him. If Andrew makes a profit, John doesn't benefit from it. Well, except maybe to rejoice for a friend with whom you train together and discuss strategy. As our English-speaking friends suggested to us, this model is most logically described by the term "coaching for profit" or CFP.

But what if John and Andrew also pool their profits into a common pot and then somehow divide it? This is a potentially more dangerous situation. Because, depending on the specific conditions, it becomes less crucial for you to win yourself. If your colleague wins, it's also profitable for you. In the nature of such financial relationships, the seeds of unfair play may be laid. Also, the variance, which is very significant in MTTs, is smoothed out.

But such scheme (better fitting the definition of "stable") is more or less non-existent in the post-Soviet space for a very long time. I haven't heard of anything similar since "Black Friday". Until then, at the very beginning of the online poker boom, there seemed to be "stables" (often players also lived together and played from common "offices" or "headquarters"). Whether this practice has survived elsewhere, I do not know.

In the last 10 years, relationships in the market of backing MTT funds with education in the post-Soviet space have been built predominantly on individual contracts based on the CFP system. A player can contribute part of the bankroll himself or play on freeroll, may play entirely for himself and share a part of the profit, conclude a long-term or short-term contract. But he is not financially interested in the success of other players. His relationship with other players in terms of transfers fits two main reasons - money from the fund is transferred (player John won and sends a share belonging to the fund to player Andrew) or personal transactions between players (most often - when someone decides to play a tournament not included in the fund's schedule on his own, and sells shares to colleagues privately).

All funds currently resisting PokerOK's requirements adhere precisely to the CFP model. There is no systemic conflict of interest, encouraging unfair play, in such relationships. Moreover, the fund usually has strict rules in terms of account cleanliness (only in their name, because the risks of banning with confiscation for fraud far exceed any small short-term gains). Any unfair play in the fund is very difficult to keep secret because players regularly come and go. If someone in the fund had ghosting or other dirt as the norm, it would inevitably come to light.

GG poker needs to delete this skin and probably everyone of them from existence if they ever want to be taken seriously as a safe online pokersite. Obviously the community should come together to not allow a skin to do this.

However I don't think that's what the Russians in this thread want. Because if that happened how would you make a living? What you want is the best of both worlds you want them to keep allowing you to play on gg which the other skins wont allow. but you want them to not break other rules like banning you for no reason. Its a weird sitaution because you play with them knowing they break rules. but your now asking people to defend you for them breaking more rules for banning you for winning too much.

Can someone confirm if pokerok skin is the only one that allows russian players?

Honestly im pro Russian here but they are not really properly explaining the situation to us here so im just trying to explain to people who don't know how ggpoker skins work.

If gg poker supports a skin that bans winning players we should be rioting in the streets regardless of the rest of the nonsense. We need a gg statement

Some of the most bizarre usage of the Spoiler tags of all time ITT.

As far as I know there are 8 GG skins for different countries/regions. Pokerok is for russians, they can't play on other skins. Not sure they break any rules by allowing that. What rules? Really doubt they would delete that skin, it has to be very profitable and not because of poker (I'm sure that CEO wasn't lying here). Casino, all these new games - pure gambling with a tiny chance to win jackpots, cash games with unbeatable rake and some bad beat jackpots, all this attracts thousands of recreational players/gamblers, a lot of them are russians. It's a big country, huge population, big market.

What I personally want is some clarity. CEO started by accusing all the schools of cheating. Ok, if they cheat, you ban them and confiscate their bankrolls. But that's not what happened. He's saying, literally, I will unfreeze everyone, they will be able to withdraw their money but then they should leave and stop playing on GG. That's not what you do with cheaters. Then there was this: "There will be no winning players here, it will be a casino, this is a strategy of the whole network". "Holtz should know his place, he just doesn't know who I am and dares to disapprove my actions, but big bosses will teach him to behave" - not 100% exact translation, but very accurate meaning wise. Well if all that's true and GG wants to become a huge global casino, many players would appreciate some heads-up because casinos probably can do what poker rooms can't, if they care about their reputation. I really doubt that GG management will react though. When they blocked Sharkscope (first step towards a casino?) and people started asking questions the only reaction was some trolling on Twitter from their official representatives. Industry leaders, what can you do.

I was just trying to explain to the casuals this is not ggpoker doing it. its a renegade skin. however if gg does not do something about it then they are effectively supporting it and doing the same thing. Yes we all want clarity I dont think this story has hit mainstream yet and it sadly may never and gg will just ignore it untill it does

according to Ivan Briskin (pokerok CEO) GGNetwork is fully behind him on his decision. I am not sure about it, but GG has been extremely shady in the past, so it wouldn't suprise me. But if they had nothing to do with it, he MUST be fired ASAP.

yes but thats just him talking **** on a forum. its only true if gg stays silent about it. time will tell

Why do you keep repeating this when it’s contrary to what others have posted?

Where has gg posted anything about this. so far its the ceo of a minor skin ranting on a Russian language forum.

silence is guilt by gg but so far its just some guy they admit is power tripping saying gg supports them

i see all this talk and uproar, but no official talk from anyone. seems all a bit outlandish if you ask me, not saying this person or team of people isn't / are not credible (at least in the forum/s they frequent)

where is the official statement/gg poker admitting to this? I dont see anything other than all these names of people who support this new way poker should be played ? wtf, no one stops us playing poker, not even GG poker... there will be just another site if these go down, its not rocket science