President Donald Trump

I obviously wasn't commenting one way or the other on whether it was beneficial for rates to have been that low for that long. I simply was noting that if Trump had some grand plan to refinance U.S. debt during a low interest rate environment, he had the opportunity during his first term. without all of the friction of inducing a recession with blunderbuss tariffs.

I mean, good luck refinancing your mortgage when you lose your job…

Also, not to judge, but if you’re a in a financial spot where 2% decrease in your mortgage is a “massive W” that makes an actual large difference in your life these tariffs are gonna **** up your everyday budget way worse.

THERE IS NO PLAN! They obviously just made up a random formula and clicked copy/paste on some list of countries that includes barren islands and empty oceans because DJT just wanted to “do tariffs.”

I’ve been saying this again and again, but for people like Dunyain or BBM who actually seem to believe these are good ideas - doesn’t the totally incompetent way they are being implemented concern you at all??

Like ok maybe tariffs could be good - ok let’s just make up a bunch and see if it works. That doesn’t bother you?

There is a plan, predicated either on a wrong economic theory, or with a disregard to short-medium term economic effects for non economic goals.

The plan is functional autarchy.

The random countries being targeted as well even with 0 population or close to 0 trade with the USA and so on isn't as stupid as it looks like. There are ways to shift country of origin to reduce/dodge tariffs.

The tariffs are everywhere to avoid triangulation being available as a strategic option to avoid tariffs.

Not sure if you remember but i said repeatedly in the ukrainian thread that sanctions can only work if there is no triangulation available. It's the same for tariffs.

As for the plan, what is functional anarchy? Trump&C want to achieve a state of society, of the economy, that basically can survive and thrive (i add: at a lower level of consumption) even if all the rest of the world blows up.

Being dependant on a chinese recession for your own well being, or a major war in asia or in africa, is something that for them has to be eliminated as a possibility *at all costs*. It's existential , non-economic.

Under the lens of an ideology that considers your country superior in a moral sense as a portion of humanity, more worthy morally, inherently, intrinsecally, coupled with a non-working theory of how trade works, economic autarchy makes sense as a goal.

A western supremacist that has a good grasp of trade economics, wants globalization, but with the rules written and enforced only by the west to the west advantage (more or less what we had till recently).

An american supremacist that has a bad grasp of trade economics, wants autarchy.

And Guadeloupe has 10% lol

So no MAGAts benefited from the $35 insulin cap or The Infrastructure Investment and Jobs Act?

Concerning.

Man even in the most dramatic recession after ww2 only a tiny minority of people lost their job. Odds are people DO NOT lose their job even with a major recession. Especially upper middle class people in smart sectors of the economy (which is what i presume most posters here are).

He is in california where the avg mortgage size is 400k, but he just bought, and i presume his income is way above californian median, so he could easily have 1M + of mortgage, which means 20k+ per year refinancing, which he hardly will pay as extra because of tariffs (not everything you consume will be affected by tariffs).

Wahoo! Please no one steal...

another great day for the financial markets.

Definitely not the PACT Act.

Why are some region from countries in the list?
like if Trump put tariffs on the country Texas.

I'm a tribalist cuck but in your infinite wisdom and intelligence maybe think about this:

What makes sense about reducing tax revenue by 500 billion, GDP by 5-10%, tanking the stock market, reking small business, and ****ing up the job market to save 200 billion in interest payments per year?

To put it another way, why would we wipe out TRILLIONS to save hundreds of billions?

wait which one of them numbers is bigger

lol at “most people” don’t lose their jobs. Yea dude 50% unemployment would be pretty bad.

He’s the one who said it would still be a win if he lost his job, that’s what I was responding to. Not saying we’re def gonna have massive unemployment in a year - although maybe??

The only way to reduce our debt burden is to reduce our debt which you can't pay down excess debt by hamstringing your income.

Your perception of the term “Pyrrhic victory” is very different than my own.

No, I would not consider it a win if my mortgage decreased $20k/yr but I lost my job and couldn’t quickly find a new comparable one.

Ok. As I said, I just wanted to get a response to an argument I read on the interwebs. And I did. Fair enough.

you're forgetting a core tenet of victimhood is exaggeration beyond facts

You don't even need to have budget surpluses, all it takes is for nominal gdp growth to be higher than the deficit over the economic cycle, and you stabiize debt/gdp ratios (at a level that is 1/ the ratio of NGDP growth:deficit)

I know what it means.

I’m saying if you lose your job, you are probably not gonna be able to refinance like that. As in - the scenario where both of these things happen is unlikely.

In the world of MAGA, every good thing comes from Trump, every bad thing comes from his political opponents.

Anyone who says otherwise is some version of an idiot. In this case they are "economically illiterate". This is handy, because then you never need to listen to people who point out that Trump is a very stupid man.

Sometimes I wonder if MAGATs have any unease when they start contradicting what they said yesterday, or if they are so far down the rabbithole that it does not register.

I'm really worried about how the McDonald's Islands are going to cope with the tariffs

Jokes on all of the US. The best you could put forth is Biden, Harris, Trump and Hilary? 340m people and that's the best you can produce. Sad.

Now everyone gets to suffer because the ''best and smartest'' country in the world isn't capable of producing decent presidential candidates.

Dunyain: "Most people posting on this subject are economically illiterate."

Dunyain: "The next sentences are going to illustrate how I am most people."