Israel/Palestine thread

If killing women, olds, and babies on a Kibbutz is a battle, let's just say I'm not super into how that "battle" goes.

The battle that mattered went the way it needed to. Thank goodness. The virgins got their company.

The Don has said he wants Israel to continue until they wipe out the bad guy's.

I'm happy because we get to go to Israel this summer and not worry about missiles being randomly fired at us.

October 7th was a victory for Hamas and it's supporters because they got to kill, rape and torture a lot of innocent people.

Do you think this attack over a year later has been a net positive for the people of Gaza?

Japan had the "amazing achievement" of Pearl Harbor. I'm sure they're happy how that turned out for them too.

At least Pearl Harbor was military targets, mind you.

the only thing that Israel achieved was mass murder and destruction of a society. Hamas is still in charge. they got a prisoner swap. its had to believe that you are opposed to killing women, olds, and babies considering that you think Israel achieved some sort of victory. all they were able to do was mass murder of innocents.

and now the whole world knows what Israel stands for and it wont be in our lifetime that that will change.

Japan was not locked in a open air prison camp where even their calories were counted by a genocidal supremacist occupation army.

And now we on the wesr should all behave like Israel against all our enemies.

What Israel just did and is doing is splendid. It normalizes disregarding foreign civilians completely, which is the only moral approach. The only thing that matters is achieving your target, foreign people never matter, don't have any inherent value, if they aren't allies.

If generous and if it doesn't cost you anything or almost anything, you can choose the path that kills fewer foreign strangers if the probability of success are the same, but otherwise, the lives of the totality of the enemy population isn't worth the smile of a single one of your citizen kids.

That's the moral truth, it always has been, every successful country in history worked with that approach, and it's time we wake up from feminized leftism and go back to it ourselves.

And the rest of the west should behave with that in mind at all times and get great again.

Hamas actually lost more soldiers (~1600) and had more of them captured (~200) than Israel civilians on 10/7. In fact Hamas had more military casualties on 10/7 than Israel has had the entire war.

When you execute a surprise attack against mostly soft civilian targets and still have more casualties than the enemy it takes a lot of cope to call it a great military victory. And seeing how the next 14 months played out doesn't exactly strengthen the case it was a great military victory either.

But whatever helps you (Victor) sleep at night I guess.

This isn't really true. Israel lost hundreds of soldiers it didn't have to by taking a compassionate approach. Israel could have won this war without losing a single soldier by just sieging Gaza.

They made a mistake and it looks like they understood that.

They underestimated the extent of the global propal propaganda, so all their sacrifices and self-handicap imposed to try to save Palestinian civilians gave them 0 reputational point.

It's time they stop caring at all about foreign people and exclusively about achieving their own self interest and we should do the same (except with allies of course).

Well, at the end of the day US opinion, political and public, matters way more than everyone else. It would be nice if the rest of the world didn't suck, but Israel can survive the antisemitic world being outraged at them. It cant survive the US.

And I think Israel conducted the war in such a way that US opinion stayed mostly positive. There are a lot of bad faith Israel critics in the US; but they are mostly losers. All the functional, productive, high value segments of US society realize what Israel was up against, how they behaved, and are fairly positive.

Of course moving forward they will have to pretty much do what Trump wants, including making peace on terms that aren't completely beneficial to them, but all in all it could be much worse.

All Israel has to do to have "carte blanche" in Gaza is to promise some prime seafront liberated land to Trump to build hotels

Nah.

Whatever you think of his motives, it is important to Trump to be in good terms with the American Muslim population here and the Sunni monarchies abroad.

He isn’t going to go full Ireland and unconditionally support violent jihadism, but he will force Israel to make some concessions to appease the Arab street.

And none of the bad faith “permanent Israel occupation and settlement of Gaza” nonsense from the Islamist supporting faction of this forum is going to happen. And it never was.

Really sad and unfortunate...But also unavoidable.

If Hamas leaders embed themselves within civilian population, there will be casualties.

Also to explain the idea of "safe-zone": we do not maneuver in areas they were not clear of civilian population. The maneuvers are the most dangerous and deadly to anyone that is in the area. that is why we move civilians out of areas before we maneuver (and establish kill zones). nowhere did we promise we will not attack Hamas operators, and we will strike them any place they will go (from air or other precise attacks).

We will just avoid maneuvers in highly populated areas.

Yes, this is a harsh reality. the reality of war. I know you are not interested in the details, as for you life is just broad-strokes, but those are the facts.

If this is the kind of world you want to live in, you have absolutely no reason or justification to be outraged at Hamas or Oct 7th.

I am not "outraged", you don't understand how people on the right think. I am "these people should be put in a position to never be able to do anything of the sort again, this allows Israel to destroy them once and for all".

I fully expect all of our enemies to do the worst things they can against us and our allies, which is why i want to put them all in a position were they can't anymore, in perpetuity.

But killing women, olds, and babies in hospitals and refugee camps? *Those* are battlefields for sure.

lol I just made the same post ironically that you've made with a straight face.

You seem pretty outraged to me, calling for all citizens to be disregarded, because they do not matter.

Your reply is more or less just rephrasing what I said.

Hamas has every right to think that Israel should be put in a position to never be able to segregate, rape or kill Palestinians again. This will allow them to destroy Israel once and for all. Am I right?

So Hamas "sources" have said to the media they have approved a ceasefire deal. However, Netanyahu has announced Hamas has officially agreed to nothing and signed nothing yet, and this is just gamesmanship.

It is estimated less than 30 hostages may still be alive, and most of them will be released in the first phase. So it will be interesting to see how things play out when Hamas has nothing but dead bodies (or nothing) to deliver, and they still demand Israel and the rest of the world deliver aid for them to steal to retake control of Gaza.

As I have said before, Hamas staying in control is a worst case scenario for the Palestinian people; and the complete indifference of the world to this shows how fake all the so called concern for Palestinians is.

Hamas wanted detailed plans of the Israeli withdrawal inclucing maps. thats reportedly why they have not signed yet. looks like they got closer.

I made this statement with a straight face because I must deal with the consequences of war. I have friends who died, on October 7th and after.
I have Arab friends with families in Gaza. I live this reality.

For you, it is just some kind of zero-sum mental exercise, where you get to flex your moral superiority over me. You have some moral proposition that Israel should not engage in war all together.

I have the darkest humor and the thickest skin, and I don’t care what is said about me. But I also must deal with reality and as such and as sad that it may be that civilians are killed, that is the situation we are in.

can anybody explain to me the rape allegations against Israel. There is of course the one rape allegation against Israeli's, regarding a Hamas operative who was involved on October 7th. and the soldiers who are suspected of being involved in this are being prosecuted. So far, the case seems very weak.

Am I missing anything more?

I was playing live poker late at night a few months ago, and late at night when people get tired people lose inhibitions and start conversations and say things they normally wouldn't.

Anyways, long story short there was a guy with a pretty heavy ME accent at the table, and at some point one of the other players asked them where they were from, and the person replied Lebanon; and in response the player asked them what the Lebanese people should do about Israel.

And the Lebanese person replied they need to get rid of Hezbollah, who keeps starting fights with Israel, and have peace with Israel; and the person at the table who was obviously expecting a different response was pretty much speechless and the conversation pretty much ended right there.

Anyways, it is interesting how the so called leftists in this forum are so divorced from reality, and their entire worldview exists just to massage their own narcissism; and they are so indifferent to what would actually be best for the people they claim to advocate for.