Israel/Palestine thread

Hamas isn't a signatory to the Geneva Convention, so Coppola is as usual mistaken.

The "Palestinians" being held are suspected terrorists.

no they are political prisoners of a fascist ethnosupremacist genocidal society

And they don't represent nor are a country so no war between countries is happening so the Geneva convention wouldn't apply anyway.

The tweet above is from a progressive Israeli account that Victor introduced me to. Shaiel is basically arguing Israel shouldn't be in Syria, because it is just going to encourage a Syrian resistance movement to gain power, under the auspices of fighting Israel aggression, a la Hezbollah.

However, I think Shaiel has a very naive understanding of what is going on, and what may be in Israel's best interests. Shaiel is working from a position that short term peace with its neighbors, no matter who the neighbors are and what they believe and what they are capable and willing to do to Israel, should always be Israel's primary objective. So any Israeli action which facilitates short term hostility is always the incorrect option.

However, I think what he is missing is that Israel is strategically encouraging hostility that weakens their neighbors much more than themselves. Islamist militias like Hamas and Hezbollah do threaten Israel and kill small number of Israeli's. But because basically they are so evil and stupid and backward, and they encourage everyone else in their societies to also be stupid and backward; they are infinitely more destructive toward their own societies.

In the grand scheme of things, groups like Hamas and Hezbollah have a very small negative effect on Israel society; but they are tremendously destructive towards their own societies. So given the belligerence of these societies towards Israel, popularly supported Islamist groups that opposed Israel actually works in Israel's interests.

Of course the risk in such a cynical strategy is that Israel would be bypassing a chance for a real peace with the Palestinians and its neighbors. But the Israeli right has decided that those societies are so inclined towards animosity against Israel that attempting peace is futile anyways. So if hostilities are inevitable anyways Israel might as well make sure they happen on terms favorable to them. Which would be fighting Islamist groups in societies those Islamist groups have already destroyed.

That being said, I believe human individuals and societies should ultimately be judged by their actions. So at the end of the day Palestinians and Lebanese and Syrians are responsible for their own stupid, backward behavior; even if Israel is manipulating them.

“It's a beautiful thing, the destruction of words.”

-George Orwell

another Hamas commander rose from the dead

No one cares about definitions based on who signed what when it comes to sending the military into a civilian population and murdering tens of thousands, if not more, of them. The Israeli government and other Zionists describe this as a war, so by their own standards these people are PoWs.

It's not even an accurate comparison. Is the Likud Party or the Democratic Party a signatory?

Hamas and their supporters shouldn't have done 10/7. And shouldn't have fired tens of thousands of rockets at Israel. And shouldn't have taken hundreds of hostages and held them for 1+ year (ongoing). And this all could have been avoided.

Call it what you want. Gaza is now flattened.

Was it worth it?

That's not how it worked with the "war on terror" or "the war on drugs".

“Israel”and its supporters shouldn’t have:

-razed 600 Palestinian villages and in the process displaced 750,000 Palestinians in 1948

-committed the Karf Qassim, Khan Younis & Rafah massacres in 1956

-attacked USS Liberty in 1967

-shot down a civilian Libyan flight in 1973

-bombed an Iraqi Nuclear Plant in 1981

I could go on, but it’s safe to say that we agree, all of this could have been avoided.

Israel should have stayed out of what is now the occupied territories decades ago and stopped stealing land from Palestinians. In fact, knowing then what we know now, Israel shouldn't even have been created in the first place - no one in their right mind would suggest such a thing nowadays.

Those are obviously idioms rather than literal wars, because, you know, you can't invade "drugs", and this is another deeply moronic post by you.

oh right two famously moral and justified and effective "wars"

it happened
israel is not going anywhere
no amount of violence is going to change that
deal with it

The problem with this particular enemy is that it will not let go of the past. Imagine if Japan did the same thing after WW2. Fortunately for all involved they were smart and moved on. Now they are a thriving rich country. I do realize that this enemy doesn't value life like most nations of this world so maybe they like how things have turned out. I don't know. What I do know is their living conditions have gone from pretty good to pretty bad and they have no one else to blame but themselves.

you are choosing the wrong example. nobody invaded and occupied and genocided Japan. the proper analogy would be recommending that Mao or Kim Il Sung give up to the Japanese in 1945.

Maybe it could have been avoided. You can't deny that through all of this Israel has thrived and Gaza has dived.

The Nakba was caused by the Arabs. They told the people to leave and that they would be able to come back after they destroyed Israel. OOPs!

The bombing of the Nuclear plant was a good thing.

Obviously.

But the point is that erroneously creating a toxic state for Americans and Europeans to settle in and take land from people already living there is why it’s referred to as an apartheid colony, much the same as when Europeans colonised other places such as South Africa and indeed America itself.

That you choose not to see it this way is only a sign of how emotionally tied you are to it.

his argument is that they stole it fair and square and theres nothing any of their victims can do about it.

oh grow up lads, every patch of land on earth has been stolen from someone at one time or another. the palestinians stole it from someone else, who themselves stole it from someone, and so on

throwing away multiples generations of young men into a completely hopeless attempt at an uno reverse, through violent means, is so sad. you shouldn't encourage it the way that you do

If the Palestinians were living freely then your argument might be more compelling from a practical standpoint. But living under the genocidal occupation of a Supremacist regime is decidedly not that.

You're right, we shouldn't encourage you to cheer on the genocide, like we always do. It's all everyone else's fault.