Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
This is fairly unlikely to be true in the colorful terms given, since the somewhat imaginative gazillionaire claims originate from the Israeli government and are otherwise unsourced and unsupported.
What is true is that some Hamas leaders got very comfortably rich off international 'aid' money
While we may quibble on number of 0’s in bank accounts, the point is no Palestinian govt has ever had any incentive to make peace or a state. Which is a big reason why they have never come close to one.
Liberals loves to point out the current Israeli regime is not incentivized to make peace; while ignoring this has been the case on the other side for 80 years and counting.
Even when the Israeli left was in power and willing to make concessions there is no indication the Palestinian representatives ever really entertained statehood.
Would the Israeli left have made enough concessions to make it happen ? We will never know because no Palestinian govt has ever even tried.
Are you a Zionist, and if yes would you offer the same characterization for self proclaimed anti zionists?
The term Zionist is not clearly defined or understood generally in this thread. Who is and isn't a Palestinian isn't perfectly defined either, but it's pretty clear and not related to a person's politics or any kind of sentiments, but related to where they are born and their ancestry.
So you're not asking an analogous question and it can't be answered without clear definitions.
At any rate, can probably derive my position from this.. I don't believe in the rights of collections of people I believe in the rights of individuals, because I love freedom.
The term Zionist is not clearly defined or understood generally in this thread. Who is and isn't a Palestinian isn't perfectly defined either, but it's pretty clear and not related to a person's politics or any kind of sentiments, but related to where they are born and their ancestry.
So you're not asking an analogous question and it can't be answered without clear definitions.
In Fairness, I think a lot of people use Pro-pal as shorthand for the political movement to use resistance to eventually capture all of Israel.
If I am rebutting a Victor or Jalfrezi post and using that short hand that is probably what I mean in context.
Well it's very bad shorthand. Palestinian in this case is a lot more similar to Jewish person than to Zionist or israeli.
But then, there are a lot of people who are pro-palestinian who don't think the capture all of Israel part.
I was just surprised at the talks hence the wtf and loling that apparently Israeli intelligence discovered them after USA didn't diviulge
I was just surprised at the talks hence the wrt and loling that apparently Israeli intelligence discovered them after US A didn't diviulge
The communication with Hamas could be a giant nothing burger. And even if they arenÂ’t, do you think Barack Ravid knows what has been relayed to Israeli intelligence and what hasnÂ’t? I am skeptical.
And even if they werenÂ’t consulted, who cares. Israel certainly doesnÂ’t consult us on all their intelligence operations, which is probably a good thing for them given how sympathetic many US federal employees are to the resistance. Although I am sure it is better now than under Biden in that regard.
Not a point of contention? Your only source is the hasbara. And I don't suppose you find the wealth of Israeli leaders to be disqualifying. And Israel never offered land for peace to the Palestinians.
Pick any link you want.....
https://www.meforum.org/hamas-leaders-wo...
https://mackenzieinstitute.com/2023/11/h...
https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url...
https://www.foxnews.com/world/hamas-bill...
https://www.fdd.org/analysis/2024/01/13/...
https://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new...
https://www.algemeiner.com/2014/07/28/ga...
Fill your boots!
I avoided all the Israeli ones and ones over here I assumed you'd immediately hate
The Middle East Forum, a think tank founded in 1994 by Daniel Pipes, promotes American interests in the Middle East and protects Western values from Middle Eastern threats. In the Middle East, we focus on ways to defeat radical Islam; work for Palestinian acceptance of Israel;
seems legit
The data on what Khaled Mashal is worth alone is insane
free press:
The daillymail piece quotes the results of the American and German investigations into Hamas assets
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article...
Just saying bro. This isn't something I should have to do for you. But there you go. I love that we're even debating THIS part. lol if this is up for debate, wow. The gap between us is wiiiiiiide. That's like me denying anyone died in Gaza. That level of delusion.
Working with colleagues in the USA, The UK, Israel and other countries, we emphasize a world view on the various topics we cover.
oh sweet, now we got the Daily Mail and an Indian paper whose entire article is a recap of the NYP article.
anyway, its funny that the Wapo directly contradicts your claims.
That's actually a decent explanation of the grift
I vaguely remember reading somewhere that a couple of Haniyehs kids tried to collect the money Turkey was allegedly holding for him. And turkey was like, “nah, we good” and sent them packing. But I don’t know all the details or how the story ended so maybe they got something.
At least France released a few tens of millions to Ararat’s wife when she pulled the plug; with the rumor being that was a payment to her for pulling the plug.
I wonder if Trump knows that Israel is holding Sinwar's body?
Regardless, hard to believe this would be productive if there were really secret communication going on between Hamas and Trump's team. So it seems either the communications weren't particularly fruitful, or never really happened.
It should also be noted the US hosts military bases and is theoretically "allies" of both of Hamas's main sponsors, so one would presume if he was that serious about putting pressure on Hamas, he might start with Qatar and Turkey.
They are all quoting the hasbara, sometimes with the very same wording. Not a word about sources.
Where is Haaretz on this? That's an outlet I have confidence in.
That's actually a decent explanation of the grift
It's a given that Hamas is well financed. There's nothing in TNR about lavish personal lifestyles.
They are all quoting the hasbara, sometimes with the very same wording. Not a word about sources.
Where is Haaretz on this? That's an outlet I have confidence in.
Bill I'm SO glad you asked. Truly.
This is a great one for you and Victor. I put the paywall remover on for you:
https://www.removepaywall.com/search?url...
that's this one:
The beauty of that very detailed and credible article (which outlines how Oct 7th was funded, how Hamas launders and embezzles money, the crypto tools they use, how the leaders got to be worth BILLIONS), is that you are going to want to admit it's credible. Because it outlines how Israel willingly allowed some of the money to flow (which of course you'll call Israeli cooperation). But in doing so you'll need to accept the article is credible, and the fortunes are real.
Have a good night gang. It's never dull dunking on you.
^^^
The expert being interviewed never said the Hamas leaders were living luxurious lives. She mentioned spending the money on tunnel borers, which is what Hamas is supposed to be doing. The interviewer made an "everyone knows they're worth $3 billion" statement, but without a hint of what the source of that info is.
People are crooks, they embezzle. I don't object in principle to the suggestion that some Hamas leaders enriched themselves. But we don't know the source of these stories. I think less of Haaretz now. You are very gullible.
Keep in mind, the main utility of Hamas stealing and hoarding so much money and resources, is not so their leaders can live luxurious lives (although I am sure this is going on in Qatar); but so they can exert control over the Palestinian people.
Hezbolah operated the same way. They intentionally destroyed Lebanon's economy and stole most of the international aid, and then with Iranian oil money had decades of almost complete control because they were the only ones with money.
“Power is not a means; it is an end. One does not establish a dictatorship in order to safeguard a revolution; one makes the revolution in order to establish the dictatorship. The object of persecution is persecution. The object of torture is torture. The object of power is power.”
