Israel/Palestine thread

On this same page Victor made a post explicitly saying every Israeli's murdered in their sleep got exactly what they deserved on 10/7. Why do you have such a strong need to push back on me and let this kind of stuff go. And not only let it go, but to implicitly support his rhetoric, by generally agreeing with him and reacting favorably to his extremely dehumanizing, hateful rhetoric, as you just did.

Also, Victor's hit rate of posting truth is probably under 10%. I am not really inclined to give the benefit of the doubt anything he posts is actually true, without a lot of outside confirmation. But I understand dehumanizing Israelis is something where you and him align ideologically, so you are more inclined to accept his posts are true than I am.

Edit: I just spent 5 minutes trying to google search the incident he is referring to, and haven't found it yet.

Edit 2: Spent another 10 minutes. I went to the tweet Victor posted, but it doesn't link to anything else. I even went to Al Jazeera and they have nothing on this alleged incident.

Obviously you were being sarcastic. I understood that. What you were doing was what you would do if those Palestinians were doing an attack and suggesting that they are perpetuating their misfortune by continuing their zero sum tribalistic MENA ways. But this time they were just getting water.

And you're wrong about the second part. It's not Israeli Jews. It's soldiers doing drone attacks or bombing unarmed people from complete safety.

You lie a lot. I'm not going to address every point though. I do usually talk to you like you're a reasonable person, unlike how I talk to Luciom or mongidig, but you're borderline.

I looked up the story and couldn't find anything either. Ramy Abdu (who i didn't know before) seemed not insane and the story seemed believable and I saw no one saying it was fake, so I think it's more likely than not true.

I think Victor is wrong about things often enough, but he has been driven to an extreme because he's upset about so many innocent people being slaughtered. Other people I think are driven to an extreme because they are desperately trying to justify slaughtering innocent people. I side with Victor when I can because I do sympathize and against (I'll leave you out of this) people like luciom pretty much reflexively because I think he's wrong because of a bad selfish unempathetic character.

And when the Israeli soldiers go into battle zones they normally get killed by being shot in the back by snipers or walking into booby traps. That isn't really much different. There is extremely little what I guess you would call "honorable" hand to hand combat.

I dont know how much you go into the Ukraine thread, but Victor is more or less on Team Putin and has tremendously little concern for Ukranians being slaughtered. Pretty similar to his agnostic response to 10/7. I dont think you have a great read on his motivations. It appears to mostly just be lizard brain tribalism with little first principles or actual concern for "innocents."

Regardless, even if he was sincere I dont think support of his worldview leads to any better outcomes for anyone.

I think Victor AND Luciom are mostly operating on tribalism. They have their tribe they support, and have empathy for their tribe and dont have empathy for the people they view as enemies of their tribe. Calling Victor empathetic and Lucium unempathetic seems like a very bad read IMO.

Disregarding the moral component, I would also say Victor's worldview maps reality much worse than Lucium's. But I am guessing we are just going to disagree on that.

Whatever.

The people pictured (assuming it's accurate) were risking (giving) their lives to try to bring water to others. That's goddamn heroic. Statues should be erected in their honor.

There are plenty of stories of Israeli's who weren't in harms way rushing into the kill zones on 10/7 and risking their lives (and often dying) trying to stop the massacres. And we dont even have to take a giant leap of faith to know it happened.

Victor would completely dehumanize these people and imply they got what they deserved. I dont think you would go that far, but you probably wouldn't have anything good to say about them.

I just dont see how endlessly extolling the virtues of one side and completely dehumanizing the other gets us anywhere productive. And it certainly doesn't map reality very well.

You don't know what you're talking about. I'm one degree of separation from Vivian Silver and I've said I thought what she was doing was good. I don't have any problem saying Israeli people who do good things are good. Same goes for Palestinians, Ukrainians, Russians, Americans, or even Northern Italians. I'm a humanist not a tribalist or racist or a statist.

Dun,

A lot of people's opinions that you would characterize as pro-Putin are a lot like your or mongis opinions on Israel/Palestine. They suggest that Ukraine is ultimately going to lose and the sooner they surrender, the better off they will be. Others would say the Russians are genocidal and Ukrainian surrender would be suicide.

you should quote this post

He doesn't gaf about innocents being slaughtered, he constantly stanned for Russia in the Ukraine thread and stated Hamas were fully justified using actual refugee camps to launch rockets from. What do you think the response from the IDF would be to attacks from refugee camps? Who do you think will also suffer, apart from the Hamas members? Victor does not care about civilians being killed, he only cares about his West Bad ideology.

yes I think the people being genocided are justified in fighting back.

do you think the partisans in WW2 were justified in fighting back even though the Japanese or Germans would exterminate entire villages as punishment for resistance operations?

or, should the Ukrainians stop fighting if Russia starts executing thousands of civilians?

They aren't being genocided and Hamas have no justification at all whatsoever for their crimes. But if you think they're justified using actual refugee camps to launch attacks from- which you confirmed before that you do think this- then you don't care about civilians being killed. You don't care about Ukranian civilians being killed and indeed blamed the west for Russia's recent strike. Again you only care about your ideology. I think you secretly like when civilians are killed, so you can engage in more of your West Bad Everyone Else Good bullshit. You certainly don't care about them.

the Russian strike at least targeted a bunch of soldiers. the West just straight up bombs hospitals and civilian workers.

anyway, when I compare Russia to the West, thats not mean to be favorable to Putin.

Do you condemn Hamas for using refugee camps to launch rockets, or do you stand by your earlier belief that it's justified?
And you really are a brazen liar, the Sumy strike killed civilians, and your favourite- children. Don;t see you condemning this and are lying on Russia's behalf yet again.

https://edition.cnn.com/2025/04/13/europe/russian-strike-sumy-ukraine-intl/index.html

CNN

Russian strikes on Ukrainian city of Sumy kill 35, in deadliest attack this year | CNN

why would you ask me something Ive answered many times? are you daft? ofc I dont condemn the people fighting back against the genocidal Israeli army.

hmm, sound familiar?

Russia has no good reason to kill the (as you know) slaves in the Ukrainians military.

well this was supposedly targeting commanders so not quite the slave grunts on the front line. but I compared this strike to a Western style massacre so that you should be enough to show my contempt for it.

I would ask yet again, just so there's absolutely no misunderstanding that you actually don;t care about civilians being killed, as micro seems to think. If you did, you'd find Hamas' use of refugee camps to launch attacks from as reprehensible. Again, all you care about is your ideology and you cynically use dead civilians as a tool, in a faux sympathetic manner, to promote your West Bad ideology.
Thanks for confirming it yet again and it'll be duly noted, next time you go on about dead babies, which you don't gaf about ultimately.

Yes. And the accusation that you're cheering Putin out w/e is not true.

Ya, as Hamas really do use civilians as human shields.

Except it is true. Vic has done nothing but regurgitate Kremlin propaganda and made pro Putin's Russia arguments in the Ukraine thread. That's ****ing cheering Putin.