Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
Most of the world, including Europe, does not have birthright citizenship. It is a norm Americans regard as normal, that most of the rest of the world doesn't.
right I get it. hes an untermensch. not a real American. and didnt even have an American name. lynching him isnt that bad.
Well, remember how outraged Victor was that Hamas killed 40+ US citizens on 10/7 and captured ~10 more?
Just kidding, that never happened.
As we all know, Victor doesn't care about American citizens being killed in Old World feuds. It is just bad faith pretense to be outraged at Israel.
right I get it. hes an untermensch. not a real American. and didnt even have an American name. lynching him isnt that bad.
what’s a real american, victor? isn’t a real american someone who lives on stolen land of white supremacy that was built on the backs of african slaves and genocide? why do you place any value on that?
fwiw I think this is incredibly horrifying and completely condemn all the illegal settlements and any violence used to enforce them or settle more land.
theres a pretty big difference between being born in a country that exterminated the natives over a 100 years ago versus the dual citizens that actually move to Israel to steal land and murder natives currently.
Well, remember how outraged Victor was that Hamas killed 40+ US citizens on 10/7 and captured ~10 more?
Just kidding, that never happened.
As we all know, Victor doesn't care about American citizens being killed in Old World feuds. It is just bad faith pretense to be outraged at Israel.
its bad that Israel did the Hannibal directive on them.
land back to who? they all dead. I know I know. its antisemitic to not let Israel do their own genocide like the white colonists did 100s of years ago.
Very odd response but i'll go with it. I suspect the czechoslavakians were mostly European.
Not odd at all. You claimed we know very little about Israelis and I dispute this after seeing a post showing that its leaders are mainly Europeans.
Victor doesn’t realize it but he’s really making the argument Israel should just get it over with and start the process of acceptance.
Not odd at all. You claimed we know very little about Israelis and I dispute this after seeing a post showing that its leaders are mainly Europeans.
I was using a famous phrase synonymous with the folly of thinking it wont engulf us. In response to a popcorn emoji
Yeah. War sucks. But the IRGC and their Arab paramilitaries have been promising this fight for decades, and Israel accepts they are very serious, and time isn't on their side. So they are dying in (hopefully small) numbers in the streets of Gaza now when they have the initiative, so it isn't large numbers in the streets of Tel Aviv later when they dont. I understand you are
Yeah, my point is that war especially sucks when you are in an excavator, lightly armed and performing an operation that has little chance of actually working, with a tunnel system under you versus people have become experts on using it. We've never seen anything like this before.
Morale is a huge factor in warfare. Even for special forces, who are fully armed, fully prepared, and fully indoctrinated, it wanes when they're not sure the overall strategy has a chance at succeeding. Imagine what it's like for bulldozer/excavator operators.
The only thing Israelis can do to prevent tunnel operations is kill dozens of civilians and a few militants per day, maybe prevent a bit of food from getting to fighters in the process, all while digging themselves deeper and deeper into the PR hole.
You seem to want to assume optimism and blindly follow Likud lines, but there is good reason to be pessimistic. Zero of Likud's war goals have been achieved, and the Israeli hawks are finding themselves in a similar position to MacArthur in Korea and Westmoreland in Vietnam, saying "we just need to turn up the dial a little bit more and victory will be possible."
There is a limit to even how much Israeli public opinion can take.
If you want to convince me that it would be moral to carpet bomb Gaza from the air until the last hamas member or helper is dead, this would be it.
Defending their last strip of land from being utterly obliterated and attempting to retain some shred of dignity/political autonomy makes you want to kill everyone?
You, sir, have completely lost the ability to think from other people's perspective.
You seem to want to assume optimism and blindly follow Likud lines, but there is good reason to be pessimistic. Zero of Likud's war goals have been achieved, and the Israeli hawks are finding themselves in a similar position to MacArthur in Korea and Westmoreland in Vietnam, saying "we just need to turn up the dial a little bit more and victory will be possible."There is a lim
The difference is Vietnam and Korea were thousands of miles and an ocean away from the US against opponents who had no territorial ambitions or capabilities against the US, and Gaza is a short rocket/drone flight from Israel's main population centers against opponents dedicated to Israel's destruction.
The (justified) perception of existential threat is several magnitudes degree higher. So it is much easier to sell the war. There is also a (again justified) perception that Israel will be able to maintain territorial/strategic/tactical gains made today into the future, even with a light occupation.
The fact Gaza is a short drone flight away from Israel works both ways. The threat is greater, but the ability to maintain surveillance and (mostly air) control is also much greater.
Defending their last strip of land from being utterly obliterated and attempting to retain some shred of dignity/political autonomy makes you want to kill everyone?
You, sir, have completely lost the ability to think from other people's perspective.
Hamas ambitions are not defensive, nor do they even pretend they are. They are not even offering peace. They are interested in negotiating a temporary truce, with the full intention of restarting the war to destroy Israel at their convenience.
They dont even pretend otherwise.
It is bad faith, but at least Hezbollah postures their aims as defensive, protecting Lebanon from Israel incursions. Hamas doesn't even pretend.
maybe something changed since he died, but Nasrallah always expressed a firm commitment to removing Israel often likening them to a cancer or parasite.
I was using a famous phrase synonymous with the folly of thinking it wont engulf us. In response to a popcorn emoji
It was only vaguely recognisable as that, and as I pointed out, inappropriate.
The difference is Vietnam and Korea were thousands of miles and an ocean away from the US against opponents who had no territorial ambitions or capabilities against the US, and Gaza is a short rocket/drone flight from Israel's main population centers against opponents dedicated to Israel's destruction. The (justified) perception of existential threat is several magnitudes degr
I get the geographic difference, and that is an important factor with respect to morale, but that doesn't change the fact that the tactical situation is very similar. One of the most demoralizing aspects of Vietnam was fighting to secure a certain area, only to have the enemy flee and hit other areas, forcing the occupying force to move troops to the new area, meaning that they would have to fight to secure the originally secured area all over again. How many times have we heard the IDF say "we have full operational control of X" only to enter a new battle for it months later?
It's hard to say you are making gains when, even in completely destroyed areas of Beit Hanoun (the far northeast corner right next to border), there are ambushes like the one this week where an Israeli unit lost 5 men with many more wounded.
As for your point about Israeli paranoia being justified, it took 20 years of arms buildup and planning for the Gazans to execute an attack that wasn't even close to an "existential threat." The only true existential threat is losing access to the US printing press. Surely there are some clear-thinking people in Israel who realize this.
dont think its the same guy or hes being sarcastic. that twitter doesnt match a lot of his videos though.
