Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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most of my sources are Israeli. like the recent article about them running out of tanks.
but I understand why many people in the West find it absurd to not shoot at medical personal and wounded soldiers.
And yet you're in the Ukraine thread amplifying the Kremlin propaganda line of "to the last Ukrainian" saying that Ukraine should stop the war because Russia is willing to kill too many Ukrainians indiscriminately.
Well I guess Hamas is willing to fight to the last Gazan.
most of my sources are Israeli. like the recent article about them running out of tanks.
but I understand why many people in the West find it absurd to not shoot at medical personal and wounded soldiers.
If you’re trying to prop Hamas up as some bastion of morality you’re not going to get anywhere.
Ive asked this many times and theres never been an answer. but one more time? if Hamas is so savage, then why dont they shoot the Medivacs? its right there! easy shot!
That image could easily have been taken from a couple kilometers away, which is well beyond the range of AKs and RPGs. If they don't have any long range weapons handy, then that is not an easy shot.
That image could easily have been taken from a couple kilometers away, which is well beyond the range of AKs and RPGs. If they don't have any long range weapons handy, then that is not an easy shot.
There are so many videos of Hamas popping out of holes right next to Israeli positions. I don't know if any medical choppers have been shot down or not but I don't think getting in a close enough firing position on some occasions would be the issue.
There are so many videos of Hamas popping out of holes right next to Israeli positions. I don't know if any medical choppers have been shot down or not but I don't think getting in a close enough firing position on some occasions would be the issue.
Well, they are popping out of holes and attacking when IDF troops are just standing or sitting around, trying to catch them unawares. Which makes sense, given the disparity in military capabilities. They wouldn't last a second if the IDF saw them coming.
Obviously, right after an attack IDF is going to be on high alert, and there is going to be a lot of eyes in the sky. Much different proposition.
I guess it is possible Hamas has some sort of tactical strategy not to attack rescue helicopters. Israel is similar where it doesn't attack first aid services and funerals (how many times have we been shown a funeral procession in Gaza or Lebanon where there are many armed militants including high profile targets and they are never attacked); so maybe it is some mutual unspoken agreement.
Well, they are popping out of holes and attacking when IDF troops are just standing or sitting around, trying to catch them unawares. Which makes sense, given the disparity in military capabilities. They wouldn't last a second if the IDF saw them coming.
Obviously, right after an attack IDF is going to be on high alert, and there is going to be a lot of eyes in the sky. Much different proposition.
I guess it is possible Hamas has some sort of tactical strategy not to attack rescue helicopters
Like I said, I have no idea if they've tried to take down medical choppers or if they have some policy regarding it but I'm sure if it was a goal they could put themselves in a position to do it. It's probably a squeeze ain't worth the juice because as you've said, the IDF is going to have back up fast. Better to just wait and find another soft spot which is probably guerilla warfare gto anyways.
Hamas does not really attack IDF out in the open. They use the tunnel systems inside the cities, whereas a helicopter requires a pretty big space to land. Even if there was room to land a helicopter in the middle of the city, I doubt IDF would do that very often, and never without thoroughly clearing the area.
I have a couple social media sources claiming the drone was spotted, and failure to intercept it was human error.
It will be interesting to see how Israel responds. Do they give Houthis/IRI a freebie; or respond and potentially escalate?
Obviously, the general western strategy of appeasing the IRI and its Islamist Arab allies is a giant problem for regional and world security. But not sure what the response should be.
BGP
To not pollute the Ukraine thread
""An estimated 45,000 bombs were dropped on the Gaza Strip in the first three months of the conflict."
How many bombs to date? Can Israel average at least one death per bomb and as Victor pointed out, how many hospitals are even open at the moment. Probably plenty of people dying that wouldn't normally with proper care. Don't think 100k dead to date is such an outrageous claim.
To begin with the number suggested by the article, and which Victor is claiming is for the current total TODAY, is nearly twice 100k: 186k to be exact. What Victor is suggesting that the article says is that currently for every body that the Gaza Health Ministry claims, there are 4 bodies which haven't been discovered. That's not 1 death per bomb, it's 4.
Whereas the UN claims there's 10k or so uncovered bodies, he is saying there's 150,000.
Even if you take into account every person who has died from every conceivable way in Gaza since October 7, and if we accept that all of these deaths constitute "murder" by Israel, I don't see it. That's a lot of death which isn't being reported.
It's far more likely that the article is saying that "there will continue to be many indirect deaths in the coming months and years from causes such as reproductive, communicable, and non-communicable diseases." The purpose of this article is to point out that the deaths which are countable today (37k), will not stop when the war completes, and the consequences of this conflict will be felt for years. If you are saying that when the war completes and all preventable deaths are factored in, that is likely to reach 100k or more, then I agree. I do not agree that the current death toll is nearly 200k.
BGP, do you know what is required to count a death in official death toll?
We've been over this many times before, notably when you were arguing that the official Russian stats for dead Ukrainians in Mariupol was accurate and Ukraine's estimates were bs.
Also when you were comparing UN stats in Ukraine to Gaza's Health Ministry's.
Expecting a lot of quality whatabouts after today's ICJ ruling.
I doubt it changes much with USA but could potentially with Europe.
We've been over this many times before, notably when you were arguing that the official Russian stats for dead Ukrainians in Mariupol was accurate and Ukraine's estimates were bs.
Also when you were comparing UN stats in Ukraine to Gaza's Health Ministry's.
so answer the question. how does the Gaza Health Ministry count deaths attributed to war (or any war)?
Why do you and PW insist on this style of posting? If you have a point, make it. I'm not your dancing monkey.
it was a yes or no question. you posted some absurd deflection about Russia and Ukraine.
if you dont know its ok, I can help you but I am not gonna go to the effort if you are gonna post as you have been.
he's trying to decide if he should google it or run away lol
"How does" is not the beginning to a yes or not question. It was not an absurd deflection, it was informing you that you already know the answer.
are the young men from the infamous drone strike video included since they were identified later?
what about the unidentified people from drone strike videos?
what about the people buried in streets or backyards?
what about the babies who died lack of incubation and found decomposed?
what about the people who starved to death?
who couldnt get dialysis?
who died in child birth?
who are buried under the rubble?
or who have just disappeared?
The answer to most of those is "yes". (maybe all actually if we take into account the estimated 10k missing)
But anyways, already covered:
