Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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How many pages did we post through with this argument. Victor ofc was correct as usual. Weird how that always seems to happen.
Anyway, Gaza was occupied and therefore the Hamas attack was legitimate resistance under the actual rules of the Western courts.
Not that any of this matters to the Israel supporters.
fyi vic had a range in here a couple weeks ago with an estimate on the high end of 500k deaths. he deleted it quickly, but not before i saw it
hamas should separate out dead civilians and dead combatants like everyone else - the reason they do not is because the 35k figure obv contains a LOT of dead terrorists
Normal urban warfare ratios is something like 1:4 combatant vs civilian? This claim Israel is at 1:2 is fantasy.
I can only imagine my ban length for making light in the same fashion of any deaths of a criminal occupying apartheid Israeli soldier (as confirmed by the highest court in the land just today!)
but to address your point, bc I am always on topic, people are now being buried alive in sand. many such reports and videos after the latest infamous massacre with Western bombs and support.
is being buried alive in sand better or worse than concrete? I am sure in a few years a few Palestinians will be able to tell us their opinions from both experiences. and I am also sure that Western sources will paint those people as lying terrorists and well, who knows which side you will take, its a mystery.
The Lancet doesn't claim this either, it is Victor's misreading of it.
I can only imagine my ban length for making light in the same fashion of any deaths of a criminal occupying apartheid Israeli soldier (as confirmed by the highest court in the land just today!)
I am not making light of anything there. I was explaining why something is to you, as I'm often forced to do, you're welcome. Also you have made light of deaths of Ukrainians many times and were not banned for it.
I am the person who laments Ukrainian deaths and hopes they end soon. I am pretty sure you support the euphemistic "forced conscription" of the population. if you dont then I apologize and welcome you as a comrade.
No need. That judge is from Lebanon and has a long history of supporting the IRI and ruling against Israel. He is just a sectarian activist and has no first principles beyond first level tribalism.
As I said before, adherence to liberal values is something that has always been rare in the world, and is just getting rarer by the day. And the judge who made this ruling, and the ICC/ICJ themselves, do not make the list; and should be completely discounted.
it wasnt one judge. it was 15 judges and they all agreed except one. like, its extremely dishonest to say it was one judge. thats not even close to the way it works.
The UN is a complete clown show with no principles, integrity or moral authority at all. If it is useful as a vehicle for representatives of nations to communicate with each other that is fine. But the days of the UN itself having any moral authority or being a body whose opinion anyone in the world should care about are long gone.
well ofc I agree with that (tho not for the same reasons that you do) but that does not take away from the absolutely false assertion that a single judge decided on this case today.
Upon further review (thinking about it), the war has been going for 9 months or so? So they would be 10,000 deaths a month which is a pretty big number. So not as much of a lock to stand at greater than 100k like I thought but definitely a lot more than the official numbers.
This level of analysis is fine for an Al Jazeera Op-Ed, and may even be correct. The question is whether the article in question meets any scientific standards that should qualify it for a peer reviewed medical journal, and I would say the answer to that is no.
It is just poorly written and sloppy. As is evidenced in this thread, reasonable people cannot even discern what an "indirect death" is or how one would make such a calculation; as the article itself doesn't bother. And if you check the articles it cites, they dont either. The main citation is a 200 page PDF on illicit drugs where they give no clue where one would even search in this PDF for whatever information it is supposed to have.
Victor, I’ve deleted your last post. That tweet is reductive and past the line of acceptable discourse for this thread. Please take a timeout until 12:00 AM Eastern Time. Thank you, friend
why? that's literally what all these clowns ever say; that anyone who doesn't enjoy israel's genocide is hamas
The UN is a complete clown show with no principles, integrity or moral authority at all. If it is useful as a vehicle for representatives of nations to communicate with each other that is fine. But the days of the UN itself having any moral authority or being a body whose opinion anyone in the world should care about are long gone.
that is what this is ^
all criticism is fake news and/or hamas
No need. That judge is from Lebanon and has a long history of supporting the IRI and ruling against Israel. He is just a sectarian activist and has no first principles beyond first level tribalism.
As I said before, adherence to liberal values is something that has always been rare in the world, and is just getting rarer by the day. And the judge who made this ruling, and the ICC/ICJ themselves, do not make the list; and should be completely discounted.
oh and he literally did the "the judge is an ARAB" thing lol
Really hoping this is true.
My old landlord was from Lebanon, super chill dude.
“Actual Js condemn the G too”
Yessir
--So this is what happens to Jews in West Bank and Jerusalem who turn down the wrong street. In many cases they are lucky to get away with their lives. Hopefully the person in this car didn't turn down another wrong street and got out safely.
And of course there are adults, including "journalists," watching the entire thing and egging the "innocent youths" on.
And cue Victor coming in with some edited AJ or AP rage bait of how an evil Jew ran over a Palestinian youth severely injuring them; and they will conveniently leave out the entire stoning and lynch mob part of it.
And oh yeah, this is the "moderate" part of the theoretical Palestinian state.
OMG stones.
2000lb bombs perfectly fine.
Israel has launched air strikes on the Houthi movement in Yemen, a day after a drone launched by the group hit Tel Aviv.
Defence Minister Yoav Gallant said his country aimed to send a message to the group.
"The fire that is currently burning in Hodeidah, is seen across the Middle East and the significance is clear," he said.
Houthi official Mohammed Abdulsalam reported a "brutal Israel aggression against Yemen".
He said the strikes were aimed at pressuring the Houthis to stop supporting the Palestinians in Gaza, something he said would not happen.
It is the first time Israel has responded directly to what it says have been hundreds of Yemeni drone and missile attacks aimed at its territory in recent months.
The strikes hit the Houthi-controlled Red Sea port of Hodeidah on Saturday evening.
z's down bad
Anyway, Gaza was occupied and therefore the Hamas attack was legitimate resistance under the actual rules of the Western courts.
No, that doesn't follow, except, of course, in your mind. Because the actions of resistance movements have to meet the same standards as those of nation states, and, if the IDF had done to people, at random, what Hamas did on that day... well, you see the problem.
No, that doesn't follow, except, of course, in your mind. Because the actions of resistance movements have to meet the same standards as those of nation states
nope. you're wrong, vic is right.
Hersch Lauterpacht, one of the most distinguished jurists, called the right to resist the supreme human right [...] In 1964, Nelson Mandela defended the recourse to violence in the struggle against apartheid, in his speech "I Am Prepared to Die".
[...] In international law, the right to resist is closely related to the principle of self-determination. It is widely recognized that a right to self-determination arises in situations of colonial domination, foreign occupation, and racist regimes that deny a segment of the population political participation. According to international law, states may not use force against the lawful exercise of self-determination, while those seeking self-determination may use military force if there is no other way to achieve their goals.
[...] Fayez Sayegh derives a right to resist from the Charter of the United Nations' recognition of an inherent right of national self-defense in the face of aggression. Based on the charter, the 1970 United Nations General Assembly Resolution 2625 explicitly endorsed a right to resist "subjection of peoples to alien subjugation, domination and exploitation". Based on this, many scholars argue that the right to resist exists in customary international law where self-determination is at issue. Some scholars have argued that a right to resist oppression is implicit in the International Bill of Human Rights. The preamble to the Universal Declaration of Human Rights states "whereas it is essential, if man is not to be compelled to have recourse, as a last resort, to rebellion against tyranny and oppression, that human rights should be protected by the rule of law".
and, if the IDF had done to people, at random, what Hamas did on that day... well, you see the problem.
uhhhhh, yeah they've been doing that for decades, man. and especially since 10/7
got dam, absolutely bodied
