Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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To begin with the number suggested by the article, and which Victor is claiming is for the current total TODAY, is nearly twice 100k: 186k to be exact. What Victor is suggesting that the article says is that currently for every body that the Gaza Health Ministry claims, there are 4 bodies which haven't been discovered. That's not 1 death per bomb, it's 4.
Whereas the UN claims there's 10k or so uncovered bodies, he is saying there's 150,000.
Upon further review (thinking about it), the war has been going for 9 months or so? So they would be 10,000 deaths a month which is a pretty big number. So not as much of a lock to stand at greater than 100k like I thought but definitely a lot more than the official numbers.
20k a month almost brings you to what Victor is claiming.
The answer to most of those is "yes". (maybe all actually if we take into account the estimated 10k missing)
But anyways, already covered:
no we are talking about the official numbers.
to be included in the official numbers then the person needs to be killed by Israel fire and taken to a hospital to be counted.
That has not been the case for awhile since Israel destroyed so many hospitals. They can be recorded without a body at all now. It doesn't matter though, the figures are way off for what you're claiming.
fyi vic had a range in here a couple weeks ago with an estimate on the high end of 500k deaths. he deleted it quickly, but not before i saw it
hamas should separate out dead civilians and dead combatants like everyone else - the reason they do not is because the 35k figure obv contains a LOT of dead terrorists
That has not been the case for awhile since Israel destroyed so many hospitals. They can be recorded without a body at all now. It doesn't matter though, the figures are way off for what you're claiming.
got a cite?
fyi vic had a range in here a couple weeks ago with an estimate on the high end of 500k deaths. he deleted it quickly, but not before i saw it
hamas should separate out dead civilians and dead combatants like everyone else - the reason they do not is because the 35k figure obv contains a LOT of dead terrorists
I deleted for a different reason.
but yes, the numbers are probably close to 500k.
Sure thing, take a look at the official stats:
https://www.ochaopt.org/content/reported...
38,794 reported fatalities of which 24,686 are identified.
they have those bodies. they just cant identify them to certain required standards.
I took your initial post to mean that they are including people in the death tolls where there is no body.
That is not the case.
To estimate the number of fatalities, the ministry now relies heavily on other sources of information such as testimonies from relatives of those killed, video of the aftermath of strikes and reports by media organizations, Abbas said.
then why are they not including the estimate of 10k buried under the rubble in the death toll?
They include it, it's in small font under the Palestinians.
If you mean why is it non included in the casualties, unidentified in this context means the requirements for the UN are not met, but the Ministry is accepting people's word that they've seen the body. The estimated 10k are categorized as missing: no one has seen the body, or it is a guess that there are bodies under rubble somewhere.
so since April they are counting people if they get reported by the family and they can show a body. so the video of the young men blown to bits would count if it was reported. also if you take a picture and send it to the ministry and then bury your snipered toddler then that would count.
I stand by the broader point that this is a massive undercount.
are the young men from the infamous drone strike video included since they were identified later?
Yes
what about the unidentified people from drone strike videos?
Yes
what about the people buried in streets or backyards?
Yes
what about the babies who died lack of incubation and found decomposed?
Yes
what about the people who starved to death?
Yes if found
who couldnt get dialysis?
Yes if found
who died in child birth?
Yes if found
who are buried under the rubble?
Yes included in missing stat
or who have just disappeared?
Yes included in missing stat
I agree that it's probably still an undercount. The point is that you're almost certainly way shy of it being undercounted by 150k... and 450k is absolutely absurd. This would still be true even if it was being underreported in the way you originally thought.
BTW if you don't know these things it's ok I can help you, but you don't need to be all snooty about it and I'm not going to keep going through the effort if you're gonna post the way you have been.
from your own article, those are not yeses. it needs to be reported.
Obviously I am assuming they are reported, which is why I specified that they need to be found.
You are correct that most people have a far different definition for the word "murder" than you do, but that quote is from February and since deaths which are reported don't need to be verified anymore that's actually an argument for these stats being over represented now, which the word "largely" even indicates.
Once again you can take all of these deaths (google says 1100 people need dialysis in Gaza, just for an example of how far you are stretching here) and you're still well shy of the numbers you are claiming, so all of this is moot.
reading that article is funny. so apparently that number hasnt changed in 6 months. IDF bombs just stopped burying people under rubble. amazing!
Tents don't cause much rubble.
It's a very loose estimate. Could be higher than 10k, probably not 140k higher though.
The UN’s international court of justice (ICJ) has ordered Israel to end its occupation of the Palestinian territories “as rapidly as possible” and make full reparations for its “internationally wrongful acts” in a sweeping and damning advisory opinion that says the occupation violates international law.
In a historic, albeit non-binding, opinion, the court found multiple breaches of international law by Israel including activities that amounted to apartheid.
It will make sobering reading for Israel’s allies, with the court advising that other states are under an obligation not to recognise the occupation as lawful nor to aid or assist it.
Reading the court’s opinion on Friday, the president of the ICJ, Nawaf Salam, said: “The court considers that the violations by Israel of the prohibition of the acquisition of territory by force and of the Palestinian people’s right to self-determination have a direct impact on the legality of the continued presence of Israel, as an occupying power, in the occupied Palestinian territory.
“The sustained abuse by Israel of its position as an occupying power, through annexation and an assertion of permanent control over the occupied Palestinian territory and continued frustration of the right of the Palestinian people to self-determination, violates fundamental principles of international law and renders Israel’s presence in the occupied Palestinian territory unlawful.”
The UK will resume funding UNRWA, the UN's agency for Palestinian refugees, the foreign secretary has announced.
well I guess that settles it. the court is antisemitic.
If the court was posting itt and accused Israel of being an apartheid state the mods would probably ban the court. That's how much of a stranglehold teamIsrael has here.
