Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
80 to 90% support the Gaza War as it is conducted or want more destruction.
Israeli Forces Retrieve From Gaza the Bodies of 5 People Killed on Oct. 7
The way attitudes skew between younger and older people futher illustates what an epic disatser netenyahu is for israel
The way attitudes skew between younger and older people futher illustates what an epic disatser netenyahu is for israel
Yes, but thats democracy. Israelis voting to become an apartheid pariah state, eighty years after South Africa.
someone recently got mad in the mod thread about the idea that the IDF were targeting children
https://www.theguardian.com/world/articl...
I suppose they would ban this type of mainstream press.
however, one principle that just about always proves true is that when something like this makes the mainstream liberal press then you know the trues story is orders of magnitude worse.
The UK has dropped its opposition to an international arrest warrant for Benjamin Netanyahu, removing a key hurdle to one being issued and underlining the tougher stance being taken towards Israel by the new Labour government.
Downing Street confirmed on Friday that the government would not submit a challenge to the jurisdiction of the international criminal court, whose chief prosecutor, Karim Khan, is seeking a warrant against the Israeli prime minister.
The move, first reported by the Guardian, makes it more likely that the ICC will grant Khan’s request, in what would be a stunning international rebuke for Israel over the way it has conducted the war in Gaza and put Netanyahu at risk of arrest if he travels abroad.
The prime minister Keir Starmer’s deputy official spokesperson said: “On the submission, this was a proposal by the previous government that was not submitted before the election. I can confirm the government will not be pursuing that in line with our longstanding position that this is a matter for the court to decide on.”
https://www.theguardian.com/law/article/...
This is more significant that it might seem (being the uk) because we dont act on these sort of matters without a very high regard to what the usa wants
The way attitudes skew between younger and older people futher illustates what an epic disatser netenyahu is for israel
Meh. Most of those people supported Hamas and the IRI on October 8th, 2023. For good or bad, the young left in Britain (and a lot of the rest of the West) has decided they prefer Islamism and authoritarianism over liberalism. This conflict has animated people, but it hasn't changed their preferences.
There are some hopeful noises. I wouldn't normally post this because although I'm a big fan of Novara Media it isn't (yet) a major news gathering source. But as you bring it up:
Novara Media also understands that it is the foreign secretary’s intention to publish official advice on the legality of supplying weapons to Israel. The advice, which is expected as early as next week, is likely to say that Israel has violated international humanitarian law in its assault on Gaza, and suggest that the UK should take additional measures to ensure its weapons are not being used in such violations. It will likely recommend that the UK restricts some if not all weapons exports to Israel. Novara Media understands that the attorney general, foreign secretary and FCDO officials are minded to follow that advice – although the ultimate decision rests with the prime minister.
Without guarantees of future weapons to deal with the Islamist threat, Israel would feel more pressure to do whatever it takes now to defeat the Islamists surrounding and threatening to destroy them.
Your understanding is backwards. The US bribes Israel with weapons to mostly play defense and kick the can down the road, which has been perceived to be in US best interests.
You think that if the US just stops sending weapons than Islamists will finally be able to destroy Israel, which is your preferred outcome, but you underestimate Israel and overestimate Islamists IMO.
Meh. Most of those people supported Hamas and the IRI on October 8th, 2023. For good or bad, the young left in Britain (and a lot of the rest of the West) has decided they prefer Islamism and authoritarianism over liberalism. This conflict has animated people, but it hasn't changed their preferences.
probably all hamas supporters?
An overwhelming majority of Jewish American adults (93%) say that the way Hamas carried out its Oct. 7 attack was unacceptable.
But Jewish adults under 35 are divided over Israel’s military response: 52% say the way Israel has carried out the war has been acceptable, while 42% call it unacceptable, and 6% are unsure. Jews ages 50 and older are far more likely to say Israel’s conduct of the war has been acceptable (68%).
Without guarantees of future weapons to deal with the Islamist threat, Israel would feel more pressure to do whatever it takes now to defeat the Islamists surrounding and threatening to destroy them. Your understanding is backwards. The US bribes Israel with weapons to mostly play defense and kick the can down the road, which has been perceived to be in US best interests.You
Israel burns through the weapons the USA sends like a crack addict. its amazing how fast they use this stuff.
probably all hamas supporters?
Israeli public opinion being divided on how the war is being carried out seems healthy to me. I suspect if you and Victor got your way and the West abandoned Israel, Israeli would round the wagons and unite behind Netanyahu.
I would be much more concerned with Palestinian public opinion overwhelmingly thinking 10/7 was justified, little or no atrocities were committed, and wanting to continue the war effort until Israel is destroyed as a much bigger impediment. No hope there. Nothing to work with.
But Western leaders cynically want to just ignore this, put unilateral pressure on Israel, and keep writing blank checks for Hamas so radicalization and hopelessness remains indefinitely.
You responded to
The way attitudes skew between younger and older people futher illustates what an epic disatser netenyahu is for israel
It's reflected among the rest of the population in the usa in and other countries like the UK. It's not remotely correct to dismiss it as "Meh. Most of those people supported Hamas and the IRI on October 8th, 2023".
You responded to
It's reflected among the rest of the population in the usa in and other countries like the UK. It's not remotely correct to dismiss it as "Meh. Most of those people supported Hamas and the IRI on October 8th, 2023".
There is a pretty big gap between much of Israel society being critical of how the war is being deployed; and young leftists in your country and mine thinking 10/7 was justified resistance, Israel should unilaterally ceasefire, Hamas should be given blank checks to remilitarize Gaza, and all arms sales to Israel should be banned.
I dont really see Israel society being divided on how things are going as being a disaster. I find Palestinian society having solidarity with Islamists and 10/7 to be a much bigger problem. And why there is little hope for the future.
It's not about support for hamas. Again:
An overwhelming majority of Jewish American adults (93%) say that the way Hamas carried out its Oct. 7 attack was unacceptable.
But Jewish adults under 35 are divided over Israel’s military response: 52% say the way Israel has carried out the war has been acceptable, while 42% call it unacceptable, and 6% are unsure. Jews ages 50 and older are far more likely to say Israel’s conduct of the war has been acceptable (68%).
This is opposition to netanyahu's monstrous campaign. Conflating this with support for Oct. 7 is really bad.
Israeli public opinion being divided on how the war is being carried out seems healthy to me. I suspect if you and Victor got your way and the West abandoned Israel, Israeli would round the wagons and unite behind Netanyahu. I would be much more concerned with Palestinian public opinion overwhelmingly thinking 10/7 was justified, little or no atrocities were committed, and w
https://www.pewresearch.org/global/2024/...
There is no divide. Israeli public opinion seems in lock-step with Palestinians as far as concern for your enemy.
I’m never going to ban anything from the mainstream press.
Good news:
For funding land theft.
ya I know. I meant others would.
https://www.theguardian.com/law/article/...
This is more significant that it might seem (being the uk) because we dont act on these sort of matters without a very high regard to what the usa wants
I think it's more to do with Labour's rather serious vote loss in certain constituencies including the Prime Minister's, which is at least partly due to anti-Israeli opinion over Gaza.
I agree that's very important as well. maybe more so - hard to say.
If we were in the uk thread or one on the importance of valuing our votes then I'd focus more on that aspect. But starmer being motivated by his need to win votes from his natural base doesn't mean he is immune to other pressures.
