Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Oct. 7 mastermind and Hamas leader Yaya Sinwar reportedly adds new demand for cease-fire deal: Don’t kill me
“Sinwar insists on a guarantee that his safety and security are assured,” the officials said.
Sinwar, who rose to the top of Hamas following the assassination of former chief Ismail Haniyeh last month, allegedly claimed that if Israel could agree with his demands, then a cease-fire deal would be possible.
The new position comes after months of Sinwar intervening with the cease-fire and hostage exchange talks, with the terror chief calling on Hamas to continue fighting until Israel is destroyed.
In June, leaked messages obtained by the Wall Street Journal revealed Sinwar’s cold calculations, chalking up the tens of thousands killed in Gaza as “necessary sacrifices.”
“We have the Israelis right where we want them,” Sinwar told negotiators as he pushed for the terror group to reject a cease-fire deal earlier this year.
If the discussions actually played out like any of this then we are literally dealing with nothing more than a 50 year old man child who has the capability to bring an end to the entire Palestinian region with a most favorable conclusion being that he is just a poor military leader who ****ed up.
His notion that the Palestinian deaths were all for the greater good and part of his strategic plan starts to diminish when your reaching or exceeding 100k deaths with almost no physical recourse left other than asking to keep fighting while asking your enemy not to kill you.
Oct. 7 mastermind and Hamas leader Yaya Sinwar reportedly adds new demand for cease-fire deal: Don’t kill me
If the discussions actually played out like any of this then we are literally dealing with nothing more than a 50 year old man child who has the capability to bring an end to the entire Palestinian region with a most favorable conclusion being that he is just a poor military leader who ****ed up.
How is any of this a surprise? Hamas has been as clear as possible about their intentions and anyone who dies during this conflict is considered a martyr.
How is any of this a surprise? Hamas has been as clear as possible about their intentions and anyone who dies during this conflict is considered a martyr.
I am not talking about their intentions. There is a reason putin does fire a warhead into Sacramento. Sinwar isn't some starving dude fighting for freedom. He's in charge of a mediore sized military who's supposed to make military decisions for the greater good as opposed to begging.
Speaking as a non citizen Arab who has lived there. I can confirm I wasn't treated like people from Bangladesh.
Stop moving the goal post buddy. Arabs live plenty fine lives in other countries in the ME and there's also plenty of anecdotes out there of how Arabs are being treated in Israel.
Does an Arab have a much better life in Israel than Syria? Sure.
It is you who is moving goal posts, though. He claimed Israel is better than the surrounding ME countries if you're an Arab, but especially if you're a woman or gay. Do you dispute that?
What torture and rape claims? You mean like the lies about them raping hospital patients with dogs? I am sure that of the entirety of prisoners in Israel, a % greater than 0 could've been SA'd by one-off rogue people. I don't think there's a massive directive to commit sexual torture like there clearly was with Hamas terrorists. Arabs in that area still have "Marry Your Rapist" laws and only recently upped their age for child marriage, right? I mean, their idea of the perfect human is a warlord who married a 6-year-old. Anyway, I think anyone who SA's anyone should be fully punished, including Israelis, without question. Is that the wrong stance or something?
you are misinformed. its not hard to find this stuff. its all over Israeli media. in fact, they are having demonstrations and civil unrest bc people are really mad that the rapists are being punished. in the Knesset leaders are saying that rape should be legal. leading media personalities are speaking on mainstream programs that rape should be institutionalized.
but you are indeed correct that it is not good to be gay in Palestine. mainly bc Israel is likely to bomb you. which entity in the Middle East has killed the most gay people do you think?
hmm
It is you who is moving goal posts, though. He claimed Israel is better than the surrounding ME countries if you're an Arab, but especially if you're a woman or gay. Do you dispute that?
What torture and rape claims? You mean like the lies about them raping hospital patients with dogs? I am sure that of the entirety of prisoners in Israel, a % greater than 0 could've been SA'd by one-off rogue people. I don't think there's a massive directive to commit sexual torture like there clearly was with H
But even for Arab hetero men, unless you truly like Sharia law, Israel is the best place to live in the ME.
So you're wrong. Quite clearly.
As for your second point, not sure what everything else has to do with what I said. You were 100% one of those people who said the claims about rape and prisoner abuse were fantasy. Israel confirmed them.
0/2. Disappointing.
but you are indeed correct that it is not good to be gay in Palestine. mainly bc Israel is likely to bomb you. which entity in the Middle East has killed the most gay people do you think?
LOL Victor. You are of course right again. All the countries in the Middle East that are red on this map are much better to be gay then the one tiny country that is blue. What ever would we do without you to clear things up for us.
Well, you are correct that in Gaza people that criticize Hamas aren't arrested and never go to trial. They just get scooped up in the middle of the night never to be seen again, or if Hamas really wants to make a point tortured and executed in the streets. So clearly the fact that unlike in Gaza, Israel arrests and charges some dissidents, clearly demonstrates that it is worse for Arabs in Israel.
On a related note, it was very telling that when they did the prisoner for hostage exchange earlier in the year, the Israel govt tried to send over some Israeli Arabs prisoners to Gaza that were in jail on various terror charges. Of course all the Israeli Arabs immediately lawyered up, appealed, and ultimately were allowed to stay in jail in Israel, which they deemed preferable to be being free in Gaza.
huh? I was agreeing that it is quite bad to be gay in Palestine. in fact its quite bad to be in Palestine. bc Israel will murder you. did I miss the part where they get a choice and can join Israel and merely be violently suppressed and tortured for milquetoast social media posts? pretty sure they dont get that option.
The ICJ finds that BDS is not merely a right, but an obligation
The ICJ’s authoritative ruling on the Israeli occupation makes clear that boycotts, divestment, and sanctions against Israeli occupation, colonization, and apartheid are not only a moral imperative but also a legal obligation.
well alrighty then
sounds like colombia might be first up, planning to stop shipping them coal, which fuels their power plants. or 2nd, maybe:
In a resounding victory for the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions (BDS) movement, the French multinational insurance company AXA has sold its investments in all major Israeli banks and divested from Israel’s largest weapons manufacturer Elbit Systems.
moral imperatives and legal obligations ftw
Well, you are correct that in Gaza people that criticize Hamas aren't arrested and never go to trial. They just get scooped up in the middle of the night never to be seen again, or if Hamas really wants to make a point tortured and executed in the streets. So clearly the fact that unlike in Gaza, Israel arrests and charges some dissidents, clearly demonstrates that it is worse for Arabs in Israel.
On a related note, it was very telling that when they did the prisoner for hostage exchange earlie
sending Israeli citizens to Gaza eh? so much for the greatest place to be Arab in the area. like you have really lost the plot.
anyway, thanks for posting about wins by Hamas. an amazing and courageous act to free those women.
def doing some terrorism amirite
I wouldnt attempt tp guess how id feel if i were born in palestine but id imagine that i would have an incredible hatred fpr israel. But sinwar and co and his actions and words are responsible for the lives of millions of people that simply had the bad luck of being born in the wrong place.
Hes basically done everything he could to stick every palestinian in the wood chopper.
The psy op here has to be that he's undercover in attempt to wipe them out.
Shipping oil
Hes basically done everything he could to stick every palestinian in the wood chopper.
The psy op here has to be that he's undercover in attempt to wipe them out.
Yes and no. Sinwar is a deeply religious Islamist. No one disputes this. So his priority is making sure the Palestinian people under his care die as Muslims and go to paradise. And in his interpretation of Islam, dying in a Holy War to reclaim the Holy Land from the Yahood is a ticket to paradise (the fact that it was the Yahood's Holy Land first isn't particularly relevant to his worldview).
Once you accept this is genuinely how he views things, then the decision making process makes sense.
In other news, the IDF is in the process of widening the corridors to the point Hamas cant engage in any surprise attacks with small arms fire. It would seem Israel's long term plan is to keep the corridors but eventually completely cede internal control back to Hamas, but tightly control goods going into an out; especially weapons.
If Israel can stop the import of rockets and artillery, and surveil Gaza so it isn't caught unawares again; Israel will be able to neuter Hamas ability to wage external war against Israel.
What is going on outside the DNC is a great reminder of who these people are. Chants of "Intifada" have no place in my country. Thank you Israel for fighting the terrorist over there so we don't have to over here. Thank you Chicago police for dealing with this nonsense.
What is going on outside the DNC is a great reminder of who these people are. Chants of "Intifada" have no place in my country. Thank you Israel for fighting the terrorist over there so we don't have to over here. Thank you Chicago police for dealing with this nonsense.
In what way do you imagine Israel fighting Hamas is preventing terrorism in the U.S.?
So you're wrong. Quite clearly.
As for your second point, not sure what everything else has to do with what I said. You were 100% one of those people who said the claims about rape and prisoner abuse were fantasy. Israel confirmed them.
0/2. Disappointing.
No idea what you think you proved with my post? You posted nothing to the contrary. Unless you love garbage like Sharia law, Israel is much better QOL than any Arab country. Even if you don't, it probably still is. Islamic theocracies aren't really known for their pattern of human rights and freedoms.
Please find me any post where I commented on that please. Plenty of claims about widespread abuse WERE fantasy lmao such as al-Jazeera having to walk back their bullshit about dogs raping hospital patients. They lie about EVERYTHING. And your entire stance is a whataboutism to deny what Hamas did systematically on 10/7. I want all rapists punished severely. What's your stance? That on 10/7 it was okay because some guard raped a person in response?
Does anybody notice that the conspiracy people who can't tell disinformation in propaganda apart from something real are ALWAYS sharing Twitter links as their primary news source?
No idea what you think you proved with my post? You posted nothing to the contrary. Unless you love garbage like Sharia law, Israel is much better QOL than any Arab country. Even if you don't, it probably still is. Islamic theocracies aren't really known for their pattern of human rights and freedoms.
Please find me any post where I commented on that please. Plenty of claims about widespread abuse WERE fantasy lmao such as al-Jazeera having to walk back their bullshit about dogs raping hospital
They were posting twitch streamers before lol. Can’t make it up.
No idea what you think you proved with my post? You posted nothing to the contrary. Unless you love garbage like Sharia law, Israel is much better QOL than any Arab country. Even if you don't, it probably still is. Islamic theocracies aren't really known for their pattern of human rights and freedoms.
Please find me any post where I commented on that please. Plenty of claims about widespread abuse WERE fantasy lmao such as al-Jazeera having to walk back their bullshit about dogs raping hospital
Never denied what Hamas did. You’re confused it seems. Again.
