RFK - Make America Healthy? again?
I believe this guy is going to need his own thread.
https://www.politico.com/news/2025/02/14...
A department spokesperson confirmed Louisiana Surgeon General Ralph Abraham had ordered his staff to stop engaging in media campaigns and community health fairs to encourage vaccinations, even as the state has experienced a surge in influenza.
well, duh
“Public health is really united on this issue: For more than a century, vaccines of all kinds have been a cornerstone of improving public health in America,” Avegno told the city council on Thursday. “There’s not scientific debate on this, this is as close as you can get to established fact that vaccinations, particularly mass vaccinations, and community immunity, saves millions and millions of lives.”
If you re-read my post, you will see that I am under no illusion that people care or that they are competent enough to know that they should.
it's in every country man. Including the ultra leftist ones you guys love.
are they incompetent EVERYWHERE WORLDWIDE or maybe it's you sickos who have insane ****ed up priorities disagreed upon by decision makers in every single country in the world?
DARVO, appeal to authority… just plain idiocy. Mmmmboy are you stupid, Luciom. Part of the internet culture through and through, emboldened online, but assuredly a little pansy in real life, because if you tried your manipulative bullshit in real life, you’d get laughed out of the room at best, or probably knocked out.
You have done a great job proving, in fact, you are the degenerate weirdo here. You are not a normal person. You have proven to be a pathetic immoral piece of garbage over and over again.
calling something that happens every year and that we smooth sailnthrough without blinking every year "catastrophic" is exactly how you become considered nut cases by normal people, shunned entirely even when you say otherwise sensible things, mocked endlessly and hated deeply when you get power.
but go on with "the flu is a catastrophe"
Most people just insulate themselves from the reality of 10s of thousands of avoidable deaths but if you try to empathize with a mass death event and your ultimate conclusion is lol who cares people die then you are obviously being ghoulish.
A tornado that rips up a couple of neighborhoods and kills 15 people and a beloved pet is a catastrophe. Why would you even push back on the use of the word lol.
Lol Wtf.
I leave the thread for half a day and all hell breaks loose. Have you guys been winding up Gorgo again?
The vaccine effectively eradicated the disease entirely. That is measured by number of infections. It's virulence having decreased earlier because of improvements in care, general hygiene improvements in hospitals, and the natural evolution of viruses (natural selection prefers less virulence because more virulent strains can kill the host before a new host or hosts are infected).
Again, there is nothing ground breaking about any of this. The fact that you think there is is just a clear demonstra
Here I'll try and clarify the point I was making which of course sailed over your head once again.
There is a common misconception that if it wasn't for vaccines millions of people would have died from infectious diseases. The truth however is that deaths from those diseases (not just measles) declined by nearly 100% without any vaccine or before any vaccine was introduced.
Vaccines are not responsible for the increase in lifespan and the decline in mortality from infectious diseases. Improvements in living conditions, hygiene and sanitation are by far the biggest factor.
This chart summarises it pretty effectively.
“But have you seen my unsourced chart from this random twitter account that backs my point?”
Here I'll try and clarify the point I was making which of course sailed over your head once again.
There is a common misconception that if it wasn't for vaccines millions of people would have died from infectious diseases. The truth however is that deaths from those diseases (not just measles) declined by nearly 100% without any vaccine or before any vaccine was introduced.
Not only did I get the point you were trying to make, you imbecilic troglodyte, I responded to it item by item, and it's stupid, irrelevant and wrong. There are still 100,000 deaths per year worldwide from the measles, and there were over a million per year prior to the vaccine. That's at least roughly a million PER YEAR saved by the vaccine. (source: https://publications.aap.org/aapnews/new...) AND THAT'S JUST FROM THE MEASLES. Your point is disproven with ONE DISEASE, and you claimed it was for "infectious diseases." Like it's actually difficult to be THAT WRONG about anything. But yet, you manage it, time and time again.
Vaccines are not responsible for the increase in lifespan and the decline in mortality from infectious diseases.
Stupid and wrong.
--straw man omitted--
(no one claimed hygiene, sanitation, etc. weren't huge factors, literally everyone knows that)
For those that have no idea what proper sources are, and what RELEVANT INFORMATION IS, here you go:
Contribution of vaccination to improved survival and health: modelling 50 years of the Expanded Programme on Immunization
Shattock, Andrew J et al.
The Lancet, Volume 403, Issue 10441, 2307 - 2316
Since 1974, vaccination has averted 154 million deaths, including 146 million among children younger than 5 years of whom 101 million were infants younger than 1 year. For every death averted, 66 years of full health were gained on average, translating to 10·2 billion years of full health gained. We estimate that vaccination has accounted for 40% of the observed decline in global infant mortality, 52% in the African region. In 2024, a child younger than 10 years is 40% more likely to survive to their next birthday relative to a hypothetical scenario of no historical vaccination. Increased survival probability is observed even well into late adulthood.
But hey, cute chart. Thanks for letting everyone know that sanitation and hygiene were important. We honestly had no idea.
And if you really like charts, and want to stay on the topic of measles, this is a really good article with very clear, correct information in easy to understand visual format.
Measles-containing vaccines are one of the most effective public health measures going, yet in 2022, some 136,000 people died of measles: a 43% increase on the year before. Measles doesn’t only kill; until recently it was the leading cause of childhood blindness in poor countries. It can also cause hearing loss, neurological disabilities and leave people more vulnerable to other infections.
So, why does measles continue to plague humanity, despite the availability of highly protective vaccines? Here’s our visual guide to the story of measles.
....
Why is it limited to those diseases?
I thought we are talking about flu which generally makes those diseases look like child play
Also that data seems to be exclusively for UK/Whales which is, what, .01% of the worlds population?
It also only considers deaths, which is FAR from the only negative outcome of an infection. Even if the death rate falls significantly, with completely unchecked spread, the virus can kill MORE people with a lower death rate. Just a stupid, pointless chart that at best only tells us what everyone already knew.
And lol at using Gavi as a source. That's a Bill Gates organisation. He makes squillions of dollars from vaccines.
And lol at using Gavi as a source. That's a Bill Gates organisation. He makes squillions of dollars from vaccines.
df, the data sources are given in each chart, you bumbling buffoon.
See if you can spot the sources, you absolute muppet. Hint: it's not Bill Gates, you df.
And Bill Gates doesn't make tons of money from vaccines. What an absolutely absurd idea. You fell for disinformation. Again. JFC will you EVER stop making a fool of yourself?
There was a video posted on Facebook earlier this month claiming that billionaire philanthropist Bill Gates admitted he is making $200 billion from investments made by his charitable foundation Bill & Melinda Gates Foundation in vaccines. The post, which read “Bill Gates admits that he’s making $200 billion on his VAX,” however, is a 26-second clip that has been cut as an extract from an interview of Gates with CNBC on January 23, 2019. Gates was discussing the economic upside of $10 billion investment by his foundation in the video that otherwise is misleading, AFP Fact Check reported. During the interview with the news channel, Gates hadn’t mentioned his personal gain.
The $200 billion figure came from a Wall Street Journal article titled The Best Investment I’ve Ever Made on Januar 16, 2019, Gates explained talked about the $10 billion investment made by his foundation in global health organisations such as Gavi, the Global Fund and the Global Polio Eradication Initiative. “What if we had invested $10 billion in energy projects in the developing world? In that case, the return would have been $150 billion. What about infrastructure? $170 billion. By investing in global health institutions, however, we exceeded all of those returns: The $10 billion that we gave to help provide vaccines, drugs, bed nets and other supplies in developing countries created an estimated $200 billion in social and economic benefits,” Gates wrote. He had said that the $200 billion return on investment was calculated by the Copenhagen Consensus Center.
He was talking about how much good the money he had put into global health had done, not how much he personally profited. It takes a special kind of stupid to not get that. You were lied to on purpose. And you swallowed it. Shocking.
And, please do continue to fight that straw man that told you that hygiene and sanitation didn't drastically improve disease outcomes in the early 1900s. You desperately need to prove that guy wrong. By all means continue.
df, the data sources are given in each chart, you bumbling buffoon.
See if you can spot the sources, you absolute muppet. Hint: it's not Bill Gates, you df.
And Bill Gates doesn't make tons of money from vaccines. What an absolutely absurd idea. You fell for disinformation. Again. JFC will you EVER stop making a fool of yourself?
They copy “fascism for dummies” and most of them don’t even realize it. When confronted with reality, they always become submissive as in “hey now I was just kidding!” and project the bloodlust into you. “DARVO”. These stooges are the worst, punch them in the face if you see them. Don’t they realize that historically they’ve always gotten their comeuppance?
Most people just insulate themselves from the reality of 10s of thousands of avoidable deaths but if you try to empathize with a mass death event and your ultimate conclusion is lol who cares people die then you are obviously being ghoulish.
A tornado that rips up a couple of neighborhoods and kills 15 people and a beloved pet is a catastrophe. Why would you even push back on the use of the word lol.
Because the fake-emergency mindset generates horrors. Calling absolutely normal events emergencies or catastrophes is just a very tired attempt to ask for the rule of law to be suspended to deal with them. It's the 101 of violent authoritarianism.
No a normal amount of tornados in areas that are usually affected by them isn't a catastrophe at all.
Denying those are catastrophes doesn't mean "nothing at all should be done when standard, normal, expected bad events happen". It means just to be able to understand reality as it is.
Not related to the US, but in part likely related to the anti-vaccine movement, of which JFK Jr. is definitely a prominent figure.
It would seem Canada is not immune to their influence either.
Ontario's measles outbreak grow to 140, making the 2025 count higher than the 2013-2023 count combined. Per the article, measles was seen as eradicated in Canada in 1998, in an eerie mirror of the US where it was seen as eliminated in the year 2000. "Eliminated" in epidemiology means transmissions have stopped in a specific geographic region
Given how contagious measles is, it is also a shot across the bow for public health, as it is probably an good indicator of where we are headed in terms of diseases preventable by vaccine. At this point, we'd probably also have to admit that early 2000 goals to eradicate measles are no longer in sight as the anti-vaxx movement and distrust of modern medicine is still steadily gaining ground. Instead we probably have to expect more outbreaks and perhaps even epidemics.
The international failure to cooperate and tackle Covid-19 early is also a looming specter. Factory farming and wet markets face few new regulations, so human-to-human bird flu is still the big potential crisis. Especially since China is more censored than ever, and the US government has just removed transparency on their numerous bird flu outbreaks. Interesting times.
Because the fake-emergency mindset generates horrors. Calling absolutely normal events emergencies or catastrophes is just a very tired attempt to ask for the rule of law to be suspended to deal with them. It's the 101 of violent authoritarianism.
No a normal amount of tornados in areas that are usually affected by them isn't a catastrophe at all.
Denying those are catastrophes doesn't mean "nothing at all should be done when standard, normal, expected bad events happen". It means just to be able
The Republicans whole schtick can be summarized by Elon Musk giving a nazi salute while claiming "the whole of society hinged on us winning this election"
You yourself rave about how liberals are the ultimate evil because they want to treat people with equality
You guys fabricate moral, political, and social panic while raiding the coffers and are the single most destructive force in the entire world today actively wiping out wealth for the bottom 90% and pulling the rug on the poorest and most vulnerable individuals in the entire world. The ethos of the Republican party makes me want to ****ing puke
@Luciom
The difference is your opinion is uneducated and unwanted. Being vaccinated for covid and measles is smart. Being unvaccinated for either one is dumb. It's incredibly unlikely to get the measles if you are vaccinated (possible, yes). 97% effective if you are even exposed, and exposures are very rare due to the populations being at or near herd-immunity.
It's more likely to get covid if you vaccinated than measles because the effectiveness is nowhere near 97% anymore and the virus is rampant, leading to many more exposures., but it's still less likely than if you are unvaccinated.
The vaccine is still excellent at preventing severe illness for both viruses.
Lowering chance of infection + lowering the severity is a much better position to be in in both cases. Plus it helps the community. It's dumb to not be vaccinated.
