RFK - Make America Healthy? again?
I believe this guy is going to need his own thread.
The pneumonia may or may not have been caused by the measles. But that's not the point. The point is she quite likely could have survived if she had been given the correct treatment in the hospital. So, I would classify medical error as the major cause of death with pneumonia being a secondary contributory cause.
I thought the whole point was because it was related to measles, otherwise why would it be discussed in this thread?
I thought the whole point was because it was related to measles, otherwise why would it be discussed in this thread?
It was declared to be a measles death or counted as being a measles death for statistics purposes. There is however some debate as to whether it actually was a measles death or not.
Therefore it became a subject of discussion in this thread.
Not sure why I have to keep explaining obvious stuff to you.
I thought the whole point was because it was related to measles, otherwise why would it be discussed in this thread?
The whole point is yes it was a measles death. It is counted that way if measles is listed in the primary cause of death chain on the death certificate. It doesn't matter what else is there or what order it's in.
For instance the chain could be: gun shot wound > exsanguination (blood loss) > cardiac arrest. This would be counted as a shooting death for obvious reasons.
The medical examiner determined measles was a cause of death so it's a measles death.
Antivaxers like to try to obfuscste every single death by infectious disease by blaming everything else but the disease. The doctors BJ cites are antivaxers. The parents of this child are antivaxers. Those are the only sources for this alternate theory that is being circulated about the cause of death. There's absolutely no reason to take it seriously.
I blocked BJ so I'm not dealing with him directly, but that's what's happening here.
Isn't developing pneumonia one of the common complications of having measles? If the child got measles and as a result of the measles infection, then developed pneumonia; is it not sort of pedantic to say the child died of pneumonia and not of measles if they are interrelated? I believe in these circumstances a doctor would say that measles in the underlying cause of death, but
The pneumonia may or may not have been caused by the measles. But that's not the point. The point is she quite likely could have survived if she had been given the correct treatment in the hospital. So, I would classify medical error as the major cause of death with pneumonia being a secondary contributory cause.
I thought the whole point was because it was related to measles, otherwise why would it be discussed in this thread?
It was declared to be a measles death or counted as being a measles death for statistics purposes. There is however some debate as to whether it actually was a measles death or not.
Therefore it became a subject of discussion in this thread.
Not sure why I have to keep explaining obvious stuff to you.
As far as I could tell, you did not explicitly state that until now--thank you.
I believe in these circumstances a doctor would say that measles in the underlying cause of death, but that the immediate cause of death is pneumonia. Please, correct me if that is an incorrect assumption.
It is entirely possible medical error was a variable in the cause of death. Even so, the chain of logic would be that the child developed pneumonia due in large part from having contracted measles. As I stated above, I believe a doctor would say that measles in the underlying cause of death, but that the immediate cause of death is pneumonia. It is entirely possible medical error is involved here and it does not have to be mutually exclusive to the fact that measles was the underlying cause of death.
If a child contracts measles and then due to having contracted measles subsequently develops complications such as pneumonia and then dies because they are unable to breath a doctor would say that the underlying cause of death was due to measles. Gorgonian's gun shot example is also a reasonable comparable string of logic: gun shot -> blood loss -> cardiac arrest. The person died because they got shot by a gun which lead to blood loss and eventual cardiac arrest. Again, I will repeat that it is entirely possible medical error was involved, but that would be a separate debate and is not specifically relevant to the fact that complications occurring are a function of having first developed measles.
Most deaths from measles are from complications related to the disease.
Complications can include:
blindness
encephalitis (an infection causing brain swelling and potentially brain damage)
severe diarrhoea and related dehydration
ear infections
severe breathing problems including pneumonia.
Causes of death become politicized everytime there are interest groups linked to the dynamics that cause those deaths (which is most of the times).
This makes the topic basically untractable as you can't trust sources.
Measles and covid aside just think alcohol deaths as they relate to car accidents. We know drinking and driving increases risk, that's uncontroversial. We know car usage by itself "kills come people", and does alcohol abuse, that's uncontroversial as well.
But you will have groups that want to reduce car usage for other reasons not removing alcohol-induced-car-deaths from the stats of car accident to claim car driving itself kills more people than it does, while you will have anti-alcohol groups counting the totality of car accidents that implicated a drunk driver as alcohol deaths even if clearly that is not the proper way to measure it.
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BJ doesn't believe establishment figures will act in good faith about measles: he knows they want to make it appear as dangerous as they can, because in his mind that's how they push the vaccine for companies that sell them and pay them kickbacks to push vaccines.
Antivaxxers don't want vaccines so they need to underplay the danger of preventable diseases as much as they can (they know they would lose believers if a vaccine- preventable disease was considered very dangerous). Establishment people know that so they will never trust antivaxxers claims about anything (even if they could occasionally be correct claims).
The game then becomes one side underplays the risks, the other exaggerating them, and truth is lost in the process.
That's very common for most politically controversial health related topics.
Causes of death become politicized everytime there are interest groups linked to the dynamics that cause those deaths (which is most of the times).This makes the topic basically untractable as you can't trust sources.Measles and covid aside just think alcohol deaths as they relate to car accidents. We know drinking and driving increases risk, that's uncontroversial. We know car
I must have missed something. BJ are you against the measles vaccine or what exactly is your opinion of the measles vaccine in particular?
So Toe Rogan had a crazy antivaxer on his show yesterday. It used to be kind of fun listening to him dick around with a guy like graham hancock, who may be a bit nutty, but it’s the fun kind of nutty and only graham takes himself so seriously.
This kind of harmful messaging is way off the scale for a guy who’s drinking his own sauce to the point he pushes this **** as real to his followers.
I found a sourced counter to many of their discussion topics this morning
https://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/s/NFJTg...
Once you start attacking ****ing polio vaccines you should lose your right to free speech. You are too dumb for life.
I’m mostly being tongue in cheek
So Toe Rogan had a crazy antivaxer on his show yesterday. It used to be kind of fun listening to him dick around with a guy like graham hancock, who may be a bit nutty, but it’s the fun kind of nutty and only graham takes himself so seriously.This kind of harmful messaging is way off the scale for a guy who’s drinking his own sauce to the point he pushes this **** as real to hi
Thanks for this. Here's some more:
The pneumonia may or may not have been caused by the measles. But that's not the point. The point is she quite likely could have survived if she had been given the correct treatment in the hospital. So, I would classify medical error as the major cause of death with pneumonia being a secondary contributory cause.
Rabid antivax rurals are not going to live in areas that have the best hospitals and doctors. Another great reason, on top of all the others, for them to get vaccinated.
I must have missed something. BJ are you against the measles vaccine or what exactly is your opinion of the measles vaccine in particular?
Don't know enough about it to have an opinion one way or the other. The only vaccine I have looked into in any great depth is the so called covid vax.
Apart from the fact that measles deaths went down to almost nothing before the vaccine was introduced in the 1960s.
It is entirely possible medical error was a variable in the cause of death. Even so, the chain of logic would be that the child developed pneumonia due in large part from having contracted measles. As I stated above, I believe a doctor would say that measles in the underlying cause of death, but that the immediate cause of death is pneumonia. It is entirely possible medical err
So if someone goes into hospital for a routine procedure, say appendicitis for example, and they die after being given the wrong medication was their cause of death medical error or appendicitis? If it wasn't for the appendicitis they wouldn't have been given the wrong medication. Therefore according to your logic they died of appendicitis.
So if someone goes into hospital for a routine procedure, say appendicitis for example, and they die after being given the wrong medication was their cause of death medical error or appendicitis? If it wasn't for the appendicitis they wouldn't have been given the wrong medication. Therefore according to your logic they died of appendicitis.
Did this person already have their appendix removed and RFK diagnosed him or her with appendicitis?
Did this person already have their appendix removed and RFK diagnosed him or her with appendicitis?
The answer to his question is yes, they probably died of appendicitis. It is unlikely they were given a medication that caused the death. In that case, appendicitis would absolutely, 100% be in the cause of death chain. It really isn't that complicated. Many medical topics have some nuance or required base knowledge to understand. This one doesn't. If the disease is one of the things that caused death, then it is a cause of death.
That said, the standard treatment for appendicitis is surgery. Antibiotics can be used in some cases either as a bridge to surgery or in cases where surgery is impossible.
The answer to his question is yes, they probably died of appendicitis. It is unlikely they were given a medication that caused the death. In that case, appendicitis would absolutely, 100% be in the cause of death chain. It really isn't that complicated. Many medical topics have some nuance or required base knowledge to understand. This one doesn't. If the disease is one of the
How does someone with no appendix get an inflamed appendix?
So if someone goes into hospital for a routine procedure, say appendicitis for example, and they die after being given the wrong medication was their cause of death medical error or appendicitis? If it wasn't for the appendicitis they wouldn't have been given the wrong medication. Therefore according to your logic they died of appendicitis.
If the medication was not straight up poison that specifically killed the patient, then I would say the cause of death was appendicitis... depending on the situation of the medical procedure/medicine used and how that specifically correlated to the patient's death it could also be due to medical error as well or the medical error simply contributed to the cause of death.
WSJ Exclusive: FDA’s Top Vaccine Official Forced Out
In his resignation letter, Dr. Peter Marks cited ‘misinformation and lies’ from Health and Human Services Secretary RFK Jr.
The Food and Drug Administration’s top vaccine official has been pushed out, according to people familiar with the matter.
Dr. Peter Marks, who played a key role in the first Trump administration’s Operation Warp Speed to develop Covid-19 vaccines, stepped down Friday. He submitted his resignation after a Health and Human Services official earlier in the day gave him the choice to resign or be fired, people familiar with the matter said.
“It has become clear that truth and transparency are not desired by the Secretary, but rather he wishes subservient confirmation of his misinformation and lies,” Marks wrote in a resignation letter referring to HHS Secretary Robert F. Kennedy Jr.
The letter was addressed to acting FDA Commissioner Sara Brenner. His resignation takes effect April 5, the letter said.
Did this person already have their appendix removed and RFK diagnosed him or her with appendicitis?
Have you ever been diagnosed with a brain?
He submitted his resignation after a Health and Human Services official earlier in the day gave him the choice to resign or be fired, people familiar with the matter said.
I always wonder why people resign in this scenario. Why not say eff you, fire me.
Are they offered a better financial package if they resign?
I wonder that myself. Sometimes there is a severance but not sure in this case.
The main benefit seems to be controlling the narrative.
I was just illustrating how reetarded your analogy was in a language that might be more relatable to you, brah.
If you want to dissect it a bit further, htf does a person die in the hospital from the wrong medication during an appendicitis attack? Did the nurse pull out some Tylenol he or she bought off the street and they had fetty in them and dude died? Then yeah, I guess that would be a fentanyl death.
I was just illustrating how reetarded your analogy was in a language that might be more relatable to you, brah. If you want to dissect it a bit further, htf does a person die in the hospital from the wrong medication during an appendicitis attack? Did the nurse pull out some Tylenol he or she bought off the street and they had fetty in them and dude died? Then yeah, I guess th
Nonono the bullet didn't kill him, he died from bleeding because the stupid doctors didn't get the bullet out in time. Check mate libtard
His question was quite mangled so I tried to guess at his meaning (for instance, appendicitis is not a procedure). If he meant a routine procedure like an appendectomy then sure. If he meant a routine condition like appendicitis, which is what I guessed he meant even though it really isn't routine, then it's at least an answerable question (and an obvious one).
In any case, your central point - that BJ is so out of his depth here he doesn't even know how to formulate a good faith question coherently, let alone an attempted gotcha question - is certainly one I'm on board with.
Yeah, by routine procedure I meant an appendectomy of course. With medication I was using it broadly to cover things like anaesthetics etc.
So I guess I could have worded it better. I just didn't allow for all the Captain Pedantics out there who were going to analyse it word by word and take it all so literally.
It wasn't supposed to be a peer reviewed treatise, it was just a quick analogy off the top of my head where the point I was trying to make was pretty obvious to anyone with half a brain.
I should have realised the brainless sheeple would misinterpret it though. Silly me.
