LeBron > Jordan GOAT Super AIDS Containment, solved #22999 post by Matt R. (addendum #23174)
Very impressed with the minute sequence where LeBron clearly lost the ball headed to the rim, heat got the ball anyway and scored, then he elbows his defender in the chin, drawing a defensive foul and stern talking to from the official and hitting a 3.
It's these ref assisted 5 point swings in close games that truly bring out the best in great players.
Link to post of why Elon Musk is the true GOAT: https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
The thread that will go on for years..........
vs.
An amazing revision from LeBron with what he was thinking at that time …..
[YOUTUBE]EYe8B--jrbs?si=zJm-ZwxHSAAsQBRU
[/YOUTUBE]
He seem to even imply reaching the final was a great accomplishment in his first year 0o ?
The first year the east vs the west had a .420 winning rates , very weak shrug
The 4 years he was in Miami the east had a .407 winning rates vs the West !
Miami was clearly a super team in that conference at the minimum .
I really just feel sad for aul lads that pack it in once they’re over ~45 and conclude that everything in the world during their prime years was how it should be forever. Just leaving decades of interesting and engaging experiences on the table, “no thanks”.
When it comes to basketball, it’s a very narrow window of time roughly ~15 years long where super physical defense was allowed a hegemony in the game, pace of possessions dramatically decreased and average scoring rates fell off a cliff. The
Best post on current vs 90s NBA.
Shaq used to force teams to carry unskilled centers whose sole job was to absorb fouls against him. Guys like Chris Dudley.
There were a lot of Chris Dudleys.
Half the players on a 90s roster we're just random 6'9"+ guys who were completely incompetent with the ball. It was actually just sad how bad these guys actually were at basketball.
It's no surprise that the most dominant player right after the Jordan era was a 350 lb guy who was a 50% free throw shooter.
Having watched the whole thing, he also states very clearly that they should have won the series if he himself had played better.
Also MJ stans should listen up because guess what - it doesn't matter what LBJ says anyway. He's not a reliable narrator on his career, just like MJ certainly wasn't. The 2011 finals were there to be won, and LBJ choked. That's the bottom line.
We do forget just how rough that 2010 team was however. The Big 3, a great coach and then 12 sub replacement level bodies. The cap is real (unless you hit a very weird sequence of events like Golden State) and having 3 max stars will create serious trade offs in your rotations. The big three had ~10.5k minutes between them on their bodies before the Finals. But that's what they signed up for, and if LBJ doesn't disappear mid Finals they win it all.
Lol today's game is a beginner format that allows anyone to get numbers
The best brand of basketball was the 90's or early 2000's where the 3-point line was used a fair amount but players were good without 3-pointers and could play other ways
It was bruising basketball to nerds and softies but it produced the best skill (hoops instinct, touch, fundamentals, contested shot making ability, toughness). Adults and tough guys could watch it, whereas today's spaced out, hands off beginner format is for nerds and kiddies.. Tough guys or cool guys don't watch it.. truly intelligent people don't watch it either.. only the Jake Paul's and people of that shallow dumb ilk watch today's game.. Curry actually is responsible - he made people think that anyone can do it - you don't have to be big and strong or tough
Being an old man arguing against progress and change whilst wallowing in nostalgia is the worst cliché. Strive for a better runout for your life imo.
Losing to Nigeria with massive talent advantage is progress?
Lauding a perennial loser and choker as the goat is progress?
It seems like being good enough at basketball to actually realize your athletic advantage against weaker international competition, or actually needing to WIN to be considered a goat is better than the current format of getting destroyed by other countries and praising perennial losers or propping them up with false propaganda
When KG returned from the catastrophic injury in 2010, he was basically Horace Grant and averaged 14/7..
So this idea that he was a "star" is like calling 2010 Shaq a "star".
The 2010 Celtics were fossils and past their prime, which is why they only won 50 games and were massive underdogs to the Denver Nuggets, I mean the Cavs, who were the league favorite and Year 7 organic juggernaut..
The 2010 Celtics were +500 underdogs in the ECSF and Lebron averaged 33 on 53% to get a 2-1 lead.. But then he melted down with 21 on 34% to lose the last 3 games..
This wasn't an anomaly - teams figure out simpleton Lebron-ball, so Lebron lost the last 3 games to lose many series like the 11' Finals, 14' Finals, 21' 1st Round, 23' WCF, 15' Finals, 07' Finals, and 18' Finals.. Meanwhile, MJ didn't lose 3 straight games for 9 years the instant he got 1 all-star (90-98')..
Jordan also beat Isiah/Dumars/Rodman when they were 27-29 years old, while Lebron beat KG/Allen/Pierce when they were 32-34 years old (2011) and needed Wade to lead the team in scoring for that series and playoff run.. You can't make this stuff up - Lebron is a fraud and the goat loser/choker in NBA history - no one has more bad losses like upset losses, sweep losses, record losses, losses as preseason favorite, losses with good teams (1 or 2 seed), losses with 2 all-star teammates, and losses while getting locked up.
Btw, the 2010 ECSF was the 2nd choke of Lebron's career after his 7 TO's in the 4th quarter of critical Game 4 to lose the 2009 ECF as -700 favorite.. The 3rd choke came in 11' Finals of course.
Did MJ need media like this to convince people he's goat?
Of course not - he had Ahmad Rashad on Saturday morning with Inside the NBA and it was a 1/2 hour show that rarely covered the Bulls or MJ.. It was actually quite boring a lot of times because it would cover the whole league and rarely talked about Jordan.
What a contrast to today where Lebron has podcasts AND mainstream cable pushing lies about him... i e. the Heat weren't a super-team in 2011 and needed more help.. lol...
If you have to do podcasts like this to convince people you're goat, then you clearly aren't.. MJ didn't need that - everyone just said he was goat in 93' after 41 ppg and 3-peat - there was no massive contingent of fans that said he wasn't goat and railed against the propaganda... But Lebron currently has this kind of opposition because everyone saw the historical record of his goat losing (bevy of bad losses) and underachieving (barely ever winning with super-teams) and choking (many historic chokes like (11'), or meltdown (10'), and give-ups (14'), and bad sweep losses with David Robinson as teammate (23').
Lebron never won 60 without all-star spacing (2009) or goat spacing with Ray Allen in 2013.
It's a flaw in his game that he needs so much spacing - he only won 60 games twice due to this need for spacing and also an underachieving brand of ball.
Otoh, most of the field goals of Curry, Kobe, Jordan or Bird were jumpshots, so they could shoot over defenses (didn't need spacing to dominate), while the jumpshooting and ball movement allowed the best chemistry, so they won more with less.
Did he address the 2010 meltdown and why he averaged 33 on 53% to get a 2-1 lead but then 21 on 34% for the last 3 to lose as massive favorite???
What about the choke in 2009 where he had 7 TO in the 4th quarter of critical Game 4 to lose the series?.. Did he say why he decided to guard Courtney Lee in that series instead of providing the size/agility to guard Hedo??.. Or why he turned into 12 turnover per game player in clutch-time (last 5 within 5)??
Will he address these things?
Why did his team give up in the 2014 Finals.. Was he embarrassed to do that to the fans?? Just giving up mid-series like that???
How about 4 straight 4th quarter collapses in the 23' WCF? Should we look into the clutch stats of that series
And what about 22 on 36% vs Spurs? Why did that happen? There's so many bad losses that need explanation
[x] Take Integrity
Nope because he didn't address the other times he "played like ****"
Why not address his 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to lose the 2010 ECSF as a +500 favorite - it was a historic meltdown
Why not address 22 on 36% vs Spurs, and 26 on 35% vs 08' Celtics - he couldn't perform vs Finals comp at that time
His team gave up in the 14' Finals - why not address what happened in that series?? ..
And why did his team collapse in 4 straight 4th quarters of the 23' WCF?
Why so many bad losses in his prime with top seeds and the most all-star help in the league?
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Seasons of Lebron's career where MJ would've done better
* 2010 mental breakdown (21 on 34% for last 3 games)
* 2011 choke
* 2019 lottery with Ingram, Kuxna, Rondo
* 22 on 36% vs Spurs in 2007
* 2005 lottery with East all-star center as teammate
* 2021 loss to Devin Booker with 2-1 lead
* 2022 missed play-in with Big 3 (the goat underachievement in RS)
* 2014 record loss with preseason favorite and 2 all-star teammates
Seasons of MJ's career where Lebron would've done better
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Being an old man arguing against progress and change whilst wallowing in nostalgia is the worst cliché. Strive for a better runout for your life imo.
Malachi Flynn career 13.4 pts/36 min. A very quick glance at some early 90s 50+ pt scorers:
“Michael Adams” scored 54 pts. 16.9 pts/36 career.
“Willie Burton” scored 53 points. 17.5 pts/36 career.
“Jim Jackson” scored 50. 15.7 pts/36.
Dana Barros scored 50. 16.4 pts/36.
Wow, incredible disparity there. Malachi Flynn hitting some extra 3s against a bad roster is proof the NBA is garbage!
Nope because he said the 2011 Heat weren't a super-team and it was amazing that they even made the Finals!! (after teaming up with Kobe, I mean Wade)
[ ] take integrity
Nope because he didn't address the other times he "played like ****"
Why not address his 21 on 34% for the last 3 games to lose the 2010 ECSF as a +500 favorite - it was a historic meltdown
Why not address 22 on 36% vs Spurs, and 26 on 35% vs 08' Celtics - he couldn't perform vs Finals comp at that time
His team gave up in the 14' Finals - why not address what happened in that series?? ..
And why did his team collapse in 4 straight 4th quarters of the 23' WCF?
Why so many bad losses in his prime w
He was 22/23 in 07-08, Jordan shot better but also was 0-6 in playoff games those ages. Jordan 8/18 19pts g3 in 86, 9/30 30pts in 87 might be hard to 1 person carry rosters and longer the series harder it gets but you don't parade those Jordan games as failures(rightfully) but you 100% do for Lebron.
Lebron doesn't have any type of legendary stories told about him.
Unlike Michael, who has these gems.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2e...
Did Lebron tell a famous rapper to pay him money for a picture?
Lebron doesn't have any type of legendary stories told about him.
Unlike Michael, who has these gems.
https://www.reddit.com/r/nba/comments/2e...
Did Lebron tell a famous rapper to pay him money for a picture?
Sure he has the story where a Toronto player subbed in and was out of position before a play and LeBron told him where he was supposed to be and what their play was. Pretty legendary.
"He was using the bathroom and Michael Jordan walked in and used the urinal next to him. The guy was starstruck and ended up looking at Jordan's dick for some reason, and said it was large enough that he looked at it for too long. Jordan noticed, smiled, zipped up, said "Gotta play to win" and walked out."
Lebron's story only showcases how he didn't have the GOAT winning gene by helping the other team.
Jordan would never!
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Seasons of Lebron's career where MJ would've done better
* 2010 mental breakdown (21 on 34% for last 3 games)
* 2011 choke
* 2019 lottery with Ingram, Kuxna, Rondo
* 22 on 36% vs Spurs in 2007
* 2005 lottery with East all-star center as teammate
* 2021 loss to Devin Booker with 2-1 lead
* 2022 missed play-in with Big 3 (the goat underachievement in RS)
* 2014 record loss with preseason favorite and 2 all-star teammates
Seasons of MJ's career where Lebron would've done better
@All-inMcLovin you're the boss, so this is merely a suggestion: but when the same falsehoods are being rehashed for well over the 10th time - and accepting he'll rereg and do it again - I'd say ban. Where I come from when someone is acting the **** it's only polite to note it in very direct terms that they are acting the ****.
He was 22/23 in 07-08, Jordan shot better but also was 0-6 in playoff games those ages. Jordan 8/18 19pts g3 in 86, 9/30 30pts in 87 might be hard to 1 person carry rosters and longer the series harder it gets but you don't parade those Jordan games as failures(rightfully) but you 100% do for Lebron.
Early playoff record is a function of circumstance (landing spot) - i.e. Jordan didn't have 3 years to develop a favored high seed before entering his first playoffs like Lebron in 06', so you can't compare Lebron's 3rd-year high seeds that faced the Wizards to Jordan's rookie 8 seeds vs goat dynasties.
When they both faced championship comp at 22-23, Lebron averaged 22 on 36%, while Jordan doubled that with 44 on 50% vs the 86' Celtics and their #1 defense
And everyone played better against championship comp when they were 22-23... 22-year Amare averaged 37 on 55% vs 05' Spurs, while Magic was FMVP at 20, or MJ broke playoff record at 23... so many guys destroyed Finals teams at young age, while Lebron wet bed vs Finals comp in 07', 08', 10' and 11'..
