Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Not sure this is true?
8 weeks
Or this?
These same women's groups were calling for a ceasefire by October 23rd but did not condemn the hamas rapes of Israeli women for another month
Which women’s groups?
It wasn't just Victor. Maybe only victor and the twitter accounts he follows believe it now, but there was no condemnation for 6 weeks so people either didn't believe the rapes hapoe, or didn't care cause it was only Jews
If they didn’t care care because “it was only Jews”, why would they condemn them at all? You’re claiming it didn’t happen immediately but it did happen eventually, right? Are you saying they’re faking it?
And are you using only that one opinion article as your sole source for this information?
https://m.jpost.com/middle-east/article-...
https://isgap.org/flashpoint/response-to...
You say i can't be taken seriously
Anyone who thinks non Jewish womens groups acted in a timely manner to condemn the rape and think the reason is anything other than them being jewish or being israeli
And here's a good article
https://www.thenation.com/article/world/...
If your argument is not that they are jewish, but because they were Israeli, then lol
The national org of women finally condemned the rape November 30th. What is that 51 days later?
And this isn't because they are jewish? Please
You don’t need to make up imaginary arguments for me. You’re the one making claims.
Sexual violence has been used against women in wartime since forever. You won’t find me arguing that it doesn’t happen.
As far as how long it took to condemn rape during this conflict and whether it’s because they were Jewish, the burden is on you to prove that 51 days is longer and atypical in similar instances.
It probably is the case that there has been a reluctance amongst some left leaning women's groups to condemn Hamas's actions because of ideological reasons, but probably not because of antisemitism.
The left has long had an uneasy relationship with the Islamic world vis-a-vis things like hijab wearing, LGBT treatment, etc. They don't want to appear too critical because that's supposed to be the domain of conservatives.
The left is critical of many groups. It's odd they would be uneasy criticizing Hamas.
At the first women's March, was it 2017ish, the president of the national jewish women's council was told to leave and their organization wasn't welcome
This isn't something new. Denying it is silly
Rape victims have no truer ally than the right, that's for certain.
The founders were eventually forced to leave 2 years later
https://www.cnn.com/2019/09/16/politics/...
So at least it was addressed
Yes, I would be sad (but really more angry) that those kids' parents did two terrible things: voted terrorists into power, and had children in a state where terrorists routinely use children as human shields. There's very little worse than what those parents did, and they deserve full blame.
I hope you reconsider your positions in the future since I don't think you are a bad person inside.
German citizens cheered for the Nazis and when they were given a chance to prosper and rebuild themselves changed their minds on it.
If Osama Bin Laden had a 3 year old little kid stuck in the desert somewhere, and you had the chance to save his life by just picking him up and taking him to a shelter, I am sure you would do it.
The US has definitely done some bad things. Nearly all of the terrible things it did in the last hundred years, including the things you mentioned, were not known to be happening by 99.999% of the American people. And of that tiny portion who knew about it, 99% of those had no power to stop it.
This is in no way similar to a country that elected as their leadership a party which was a branch of a terrorist organization, whose 'party platform' was the genocide of an entire people. That is why I
It doesn't matter if we determine that Gaza is the worst place on earth or that we should feel a certain way about what's going on.
Hamas laughably encapsulates the worst literal traits that every human being can seem to possibly possess all in one for a perfected real life supervillain. And it's a shame that a certain % of the folks there support them and I would have to unfortunately assume that a portion of them are just as horrendous as them.
But even with that said, damn near all of people there had no choice but to be born, raised and educated there while mixed in with the messes at no fault to their own. This of course not including the children who are powerless or the understanding that these people, even the bad ones, wouldn't be the way they are if they were born and raised on a different part of the world.
At the first women's March, was it 2017ish, the president of the national jewish women's council was told to leave and their organization wasn't welcome
This isn't something new. Denying it is silly
You’re attributing to 4 million women who marched what ultimately amounted to an internal power struggle among co-chairs. That’s far more silly.
While I don’t deny there are some concerning aspects of the origins of the Women’s March and potentially it’s founders, it’s not logical to then extrapolate from that and say women’s organizations and feminists and leftists are all antisemitic. This is why talking to you is so exhausting and pointless.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/report-idf...
Document drawn up by Military Intelligence reportedly states that even if Israel dismantles Hamas’s organized military capabilities, it will continue to operate in Gaza
That's an important and probably not entirely surprising read. This got broadcast pretty far and wide. You can imagine what it might have been like if the USA had published that mere months into Iraq, Afghanistan or Vietnam. So pretty powerful to tell the population this openly now. I think Gantz and Gallant made very very sure this was released exactly as it has been.
Btw again I did not use the report function, but color me surprised that threats of physical violence came with only a warning in here, compared to say personal attacks. That's one thing I won't hesitate to report, should it happen to me. That's the line, and it probably should have been in here too.
I've been saying that for awhile... it's been pretty clear. Israel is not going to rid Gaza of Hamas, which is already working again in north Gaza and will likely be growing. Israel has shown what happens when they are attacked, any further destruction is wasted (as far deterrence goes they went way past what was needed already). It is time for Israel to show what working with Israel accomplishes.
Israel is now in a phase where they need to compete against the charity wings of Hamas, and any military actions against Hamas take a secondary role.
It seems that more rationale state actors seem to follow your line of logic. That both sides should just accept violence from the other side indefinitely, and it isn't morally defensible for Israel to use force to try to actually stop the violence, because too many Palestinians would die as a result.
It seems Israel was more or less willing to follow this line until 10/7. And there was a fundamental shift after that, where they currently aren't.
I will say as drone/AI/rocket/biowarfare technol
This is a really scary proposition. I always feel like a dummy discussing it because I understand science and tech about as well as a medieval peasant.
Will it it become really easy to make nukes, viruses, drones, other stuff that can wipe out thousands or millions with a button push?
If hamas or school shooters circa 2060 can just kill 20k people whenever they want, is there any solution other than like, everyone gets chipped and monitored 24/7?
Israel do need a political solution as much as anyone else.
The future of war doesn't look pretty. Whether terrorists groups willbe able to unleash such damage with ease seems far more dubious.
I've been saying that for awhile... it's been pretty clear. Israel is not going to rid Gaza of Hamas, which is already working again in north Gaza and will likely be growing. Israel has shown what happens when they are attacked, any further destruction is wasted (as far deterrence goes they went way past what was needed already). It is time for Israel to show what working with Israel accomplishes.
Israel is now in a phase where they need to compete against the charity wings of Hamas, and any mili
In fairness BGP, they're also trying to get the hostages out (dead or alive) without needing to trade 3000 Gazans (of which a few hundred will be confirmed killers and bomb expert). 1,500 was already turned down. Gotta think the number is way way up there. Obviously something nobody serving in the IDF can tolerate.
This concept has swung elections in the past, and would swing this one. So they're going till the hostage thing is finished.
Will it it become really easy to make nukes, viruses, drones, other stuff that can wipe out thousands or millions with a button push?
If hamas or school shooters circa 2060 can just kill 20k people whenever they want, is there any solution other than like, everyone gets chipped and monitored 24/7?
This is a segue, but an interesting one IMO. At some point in the past I was listening to a podcast (I dont even remember the podcast, may have been Rogan) where the guest was someone who thought about such things. And his conclusion was that if you think about it, we have probably run insanely good so far that all the potentially terrible technologies are so hard to develop and use, and have been the exclusive domain of rationale state actors. And there really is no reason to assume this lucky streak will continue indefinitely moving forward.
