Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread
User "MoneyTaker69" is alleged to be superusing on GG Poker.
In December, Moneytaker won at 90bb/100 on GG Poker in 8,900 hands playing 53% VPIP. Soon after, he binked a $150 Sunday MTT for $47,586 while playing an extremely volatile strategy, which aroused a lot of suspicion. GG Poker has acknowledged the situation privately and is preparing to address it, but it's important for the public to know immediately due to the significance of superusing.
The Results
The following results graph comes from Smarthand, a site that tracks online poker results. MoneyTaker won at 90bb/100 in December playing 53/17.
Typically, a player with this VPIP/PFR ratio would be in the -50bb/100 range. Even if we were impossibly generous and said he was breakeven, this run would be a statical anomaly. For a -50bb recreational? Impossible.
Here is a primedope simulation of the probability of a breakeven player having this run.
The following is a simulation of possible runs for a player with a given winrate using primedope's variance calculator. The light blue line at the top of the graph represents the "Best" run, which is the luckiest run a person could have in 1,000 trials.
This is a -50bb player playing 9000 hands. Their luckiest run is around -10 buyins. Mokeytaker won 77 buy-ins.
Additionally, MoneyTaker won a $150 GG Masters Sunday MTT, which is a big open field tournament. This makes the possibility of chip dumping or targeting specific players with a virus much less likely.
The Hands
The following hands were collected by various users as examples of likely foul play.
How is he cheating?
Based off his play, the most natural explanation is that he can see the cards. He rarely puts in money significantly behind or calls the river with the worst hand. Also, his winrate is so high that RTA could not possibly explain it.
It's unclear how he's able to see others' cards, and it's possible he's not the only one exploiting a glitch in the system. A post on 2+2 highlighted a group of suspicious accounts that played for brief stints and won for >30bb/100, which is particularly difficult on GG due to their rake structure.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
There is no clear evidence that the players highlighted in the above post are superusing, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that this could be a larger issue at scale if done by hackers that want to be less obvious than running >50% VPIP.
Hacker Group
"MoneyTaker" is a hacker group. It's unclear if this account is in any way associated with them or if it's just incidental, but worth mentioning.
What's Next?
As a community, we await GG Poker's response. I'm confident they'll do the right thing and share everything they know about this incident shortly.
it IS rigged, and you win less than you should, if you win at all. -3.5bbs are the regs on gg says jungleman
Complete and utter nonsense!
I think he is referring to paradise poker. I cant quite remember the whole story but apparently they had made more about their algorithm than they should have public and there was a way to exploit it. As far as i remember a white hat individual or group warned them but there were at least rumours that some black hats had taken notice of the possible exploit too.
I was just about to make a thread about this. I've never been one to put on the tinfoil hat, but between all the different exploits found in GGPoker software over the past few years and the fact that Pokerstars had an exploitable RNG during the early days (cira 2002-2005) which was reverse engineered so that hackers could predict the community cards that would come out, it really begs the question.
I just had the same weird precedent happen to me, and this is following a strangely consistent pat
Someone made a good reshove and beat you = cheating? lol
All the rigtards really have found an excuse to come out of the woodwork with these recent GG issues.
This is not the only shady thing GG does. Also thread about this guy was created almost a week ago in the other section of this forum, barely anyone seemed to care. Should i also repost my thread about pokerok (russian gg skin) support lying to their client about a hack? Maybe it will get some traction.
Any website that does not have a gambling license outside of Curacao is a joke.
wth are you talking about? GG is licensed by Isle of Man which is one of the most reputable gambling licenses in the world
Where do you play if not GG? That's the situation they've always wanted, and it most undoubtably is slowly happening. Non-US players, at least.
In GG if you encounter a guy with almost zero cashes in MTT and a big stack, you need to be extremely careful.
It sounds ridicilous to anyone not playing there but it happens time after time that these guys knock you out in the most bizarre hands that you have ever played.
Someone made a good reshove and beat you = cheating? lol
All the rigtards really have found an excuse to come out of the woodwork with these recent GG issues.
Quite amazing to call someone "rigtard" in a thread about a site where actual cheating has occured and is very likely still happening.
How much does GG pay you?
Since 2007, there have now been FOUR poker sites proven to have had superusers. Not everyone will have fallen victims to them, but to believe online poker is criminally unexploitable and legit, is a little naïve.
The only reason these superusers were detected was because of their abnormal and statistically impossible win rates. There could be many more superuser accounts that ensure they lose just enough to ward off suspicion.
Where there is a way to cheat, there will always be a minority who find and use it, and everyone should be aware by now that poker software DOES contain the ability to create superuser accounts. So online players have to rely on the honesty and integrity of the software developers and the poker site staff.
Many pros are moving to live poker which is booming now.
I've been playing for 18 years both live and online and experienced every good and bad beat possible in both formats. But I've seen things online that just don't occur in live games.
Everyone has the right to deposit their cash and play, and online can be a good way to play a million hands and learn the game. But no one will convince me that superusers have been eradicated from the online sites.
While 'live' cheating can and has happened, it's less common than online.
It's an awful reshove with A8s and a player allin unless there is some big bounty, but not strong evidence of cheating.
Play around with HRC and just put in some looser rejams from SB in that spot and you quickly get an easy +EV rejam with A8ss. I dont give a **** what a GTO solver says about it, random humans in a donkament arent playing GTO and A8ss overjam can easily be a profitable play. Maybe add in a BU player who opens wider than he should as well and yea... "awful reshove", hardly. Even if its not mathematically approved, its a situation that can also be explained as simply as "rec player saw that HERO jammed with A4ss in a similar spot earlier and A8ss is ahead of that hand". Whining about site cheating whenever you see a "bad play" get rewarded is what rigtards have been doing since the dawn of time.
Quite amazing to call someone "rigtard" in a thread about a site where actual cheating has occured and is very likely still happening.
How much does GG pay you?
GG is awful, but morons who clog up the thread with their bad beat stories thinking that some random guy making a loose reshove and winning is proof of cheating or rigging is the definition of rigtards. Just because GG has known issues doesnt mean rigtards are now right.
Guy makes post documenting a player who makes several ridiculous call downs and plays an absurd, unsustainable VPIP while winning huge = Legitimate concerning stuff that was highly worthy of discussion
Guy whining about someone who reshoved A8ss over his SB v BU jam = rigtard
Guy whining about a fish calling turn with a gutter and hitting the river = rigtard
Play around with HRC and just put in some looser rejams from SB in that spot and you quickly get an easy +EV rejam with A8ss. I dont give a **** what a GTO solver says about it, random humans in a donkament arent playing GTO and A8ss overjam can easily be a profitable play. Maybe add in a BU player who opens wider than he should as well and yea... "awful reshove", hardly. Even if its not mathematically approved, its a situation that can also be explained as simply as "rec player saw that HERO ja
My you are an idiot. Yes if I am allowed to suppose my opponents all are playing stupidly I can re-shove with 72o profitably. The fact you admit you do not care about what a solver says about a play shows how seriously you should be taken. The fact we KNOW GG has had cheating issues means the default is not that it is honest but that the integrity is not known. The fact that sites are trying to hide information that would let outsiders prove there is cheating when it has been the outsiders that exposed the cheaters tells me all I need know about their honesty.
My you are an idiot. Yes if I am allowed to suppose my opponents all are playing stupidly I can re-shove with 72o profitably. The fact you admit you do not care about what a solver says about a play shows how seriously you should be taken. The fact we KNOW GG has had cheating issues means the default is not that it is honest but that the integrity is not known. The fact that sites are trying to hide information that would let outsiders prove there is cheating when it has been the outsiders that
If you put V's actual, realistic range into HRC and it tells you that A8ss is a profitable show, why the hell would you listen to what a GTO solver says? And you call me an idiot.. Lmao GTO robots are so ****ing dumb
Let's see. Human beings build a website that uses computers to run card games. A lot of money is being bet on these games. All the mechanisms for these games are computer controlled and overseen by humans. What could possibly go wrong? It's all laughable to me. Anyone who thinks everything on the various poker websites is completely on the up and up is only fooling themselves. You want to play poker online, proceed at your own risk. This old saying is appropos here, "let the buyer beware!"
Hi everyone, I've been following this story from afar and I don't know if the link has already been made, but do you think it's possible that Moneytaker69 is also 11ABCD? He would have been banned and would have created another account to continue cheating? it seems that the methods correspond and the periods played are different.
does he have similar stats to moneytaker69? (not winrate but vpip/pfr etc)
He was winning at almost 3times the winrate of the last confirmed super user. I don't understand why he stopped playing. Probably switched accounts, or went to Rush and Cash. The part where we can't actually check and we won't get any answers from GG is gonna suck again.
UH OH
He was winning at almost 3times the winrate of the last confirmed super user. I don't understand why he stopped playing. Probably switched accounts, or went to Rush and Cash. The part where we can't actually check and we won't get any answers from GG is gonna suck again.
That was tell tale sign from UB cheating scandal. That the accounts crushed then inexplicably they quit never to be seen again
He was winning at almost 3times the winrate of the last confirmed super user. I don't understand why he stopped playing. Probably switched accounts, or went to Rush and Cash. The part where we can't actually check and we won't get any answers from GG is gonna suck again.
That's absolutely insane. Who knows how many superusers like this are there on rush and cash?
I honestly think this is just a case where GG has some insane hole in their software, and somebody found out how to exploit it. What happens is when the cheater gets exposed, instead of trying to find out HOW he cheated, they just snap ban him (in order to prevent further money being stolen) so the cheater just makes another new account and continues forever.
What a ****ing clown show this site is. Insane. GG poker is the worst thing that happened to online poker since black friday.
The wildest thing is that ALL the influential online poker players and streamers, including sponsored pros like Negreanu and Elky are not saying anything about this, when we all know this is a major scandal that repeats itself every few weeks/months on GG. This is absolutely outrageous and just shows how hypocritical these people are.
