Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread
User "MoneyTaker69" is alleged to be superusing on GG Poker.
In December, Moneytaker won at 90bb/100 on GG Poker in 8,900 hands playing 53% VPIP. Soon after, he binked a $150 Sunday MTT for $47,586 while playing an extremely volatile strategy, which aroused a lot of suspicion. GG Poker has acknowledged the situation privately and is preparing to address it, but it's important for the public to know immediately due to the significance of superusing.
The Results
The following results graph comes from Smarthand, a site that tracks online poker results. MoneyTaker won at 90bb/100 in December playing 53/17.
Typically, a player with this VPIP/PFR ratio would be in the -50bb/100 range. Even if we were impossibly generous and said he was breakeven, this run would be a statical anomaly. For a -50bb recreational? Impossible.
Here is a primedope simulation of the probability of a breakeven player having this run.
The following is a simulation of possible runs for a player with a given winrate using primedope's variance calculator. The light blue line at the top of the graph represents the "Best" run, which is the luckiest run a person could have in 1,000 trials.
This is a -50bb player playing 9000 hands. Their luckiest run is around -10 buyins. Mokeytaker won 77 buy-ins.
Additionally, MoneyTaker won a $150 GG Masters Sunday MTT, which is a big open field tournament. This makes the possibility of chip dumping or targeting specific players with a virus much less likely.
The Hands
The following hands were collected by various users as examples of likely foul play.
How is he cheating?
Based off his play, the most natural explanation is that he can see the cards. He rarely puts in money significantly behind or calls the river with the worst hand. Also, his winrate is so high that RTA could not possibly explain it.
It's unclear how he's able to see others' cards, and it's possible he's not the only one exploiting a glitch in the system. A post on 2+2 highlighted a group of suspicious accounts that played for brief stints and won for >30bb/100, which is particularly difficult on GG due to their rake structure.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
There is no clear evidence that the players highlighted in the above post are superusing, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that this could be a larger issue at scale if done by hackers that want to be less obvious than running >50% VPIP.
Hacker Group
"MoneyTaker" is a hacker group. It's unclear if this account is in any way associated with them or if it's just incidental, but worth mentioning.
What's Next?
As a community, we await GG Poker's response. I'm confident they'll do the right thing and share everything they know about this incident shortly.
hard to blame dnegs, I wouldnt cancel my contract either if i just lost 2 milly in a year
Unless Doug Polk or any other guy with a lot of public brings this to people attention, most players won't know what's happening. I have more than 300 players and few knew about this. We are talking about pro players,,,cant imagine fun players...
Unfortunately, this is the reality of poker, online poker, and the game's content creators. Even with more than 400K subs – which is pretty damn good for a poker player and puts him among the top YouTubers – Polk's reach is still quite niche-ish.
Think of some of the bigger stories within the poker world in recent years. Now think about how well or how poorly it reached the huddled masses of casual fans and rec players. That ratio gets worse when the subject is related to the online world. Not helping the cause is that GGPoker in particular has a higher percentage of recs than the others, given its overall ethos.
For me, Doug's video WAS what brought me to this subject, and to this thread in particular. I'm a reasonably avid 2+2er, and even I didn't know about the MoneyTaker saga until that vid went live. If there are hundreds of people like me – a chilling, sobering notion, by the way – then you can argue his reporting did have an effect.
Unfortunately, the guy who most needs to speak up about it is the one who probably won't (or can't, at least right now). And to be honest, I'm not sure what he could say that would assuage any concerns about that site.
There's a suspicion that the account ABX23 is a bot or a cheater that uses scripts to get seated at the table. He/she is playing AoF Hold'em on all limits and on vast amount of tables for many hours every day.
I noticed that when I was the first in line on the wait list for the table and the seat became vacant, so I should've been the one to get seated there, but he/she was seated there instead and he/she was not on the wait list even.
After that, I started to watch him/her, the situation continued to repeat and it looks like that it is still the case. He/she gets at all the tables first without any lines or wait lists when there is one. Also, when he/she gets seated that way and there's a wait list for that table, then when another seat becomes vacant the system does not put players to that seat in order, anybody can click on the seat and get seated or nobody at all can get seated anymore and the place always stays vacant, so this ABX23 breaks the system.
Besides that, he/she gets unfair advantage by playing a huge amount of hands for the leaderboard much faster than all other players, because he/she never waits to get at the table due to cheating. Sometimes he/she doesn't use that hack on 2/4, but he/she often does that on 10/20 and 5/10. I was reporting this account before, but he/she is still playing and I don't think there were any actions against ABX23. Please check this account out and investigate. Thanks!
Where's Galfond? Didn't he build a site for this moment? Perfect marketing timing. The people trust Phil.
51% STP rakeback that nobody wanted? No MTTs that everyone wanted? He didn't give the people what they wanted and because of that the site died.
Why hasn't he made a vid about this scandal on his yt channel yet? I wouldn't trust him at all!
So its obvious by now that Jason Koon, if allowed, will just ignore this until it blows over.
But, are other poker names even calling him and the rest of the GG sellouts out on twitter/X (not on there myself as too many insufferable terminally online cretins to deal with)?
Why arent other names who are NOT ambassadors, but who have a certain bit of following on twitter, calling out the """""""" integrity council """"""""""? Im thinking big people like Galfond, Doug Polk and Matt Berkey, but also smaller names like say Jamie Kerstetter, Will Jaffe etc.
Are ANY of them calling out what a joke Koon and co are at GG?
So its obvious by now that Jason Koon, if allowed, will just ignore this until it blows over.
But, are other poker names even calling him and the rest of the GG sellouts out on twitter/X (not on there myself as too many insufferable terminally online cretins to deal with)?
Why arent other names who are NOT ambassadors, but who have a certain bit of following on twitter, calling out the """""""" integrity council """"""""""? Im thinking big people like Galfond, Doug Polk and Matt Berkey, but also s
this is how it works with an inner circle of "elites". everyone in is friends with everyone and the people just outside who is aspiring to join has no interest in burning their chances and "media" don't want to ruffle feathers to lose their connections. it's the same in every industry
There's a suspicion that the account ABX23 is a bot or a cheater that uses scripts to get seated at the table. He/she is playing AoF Hold'em on all limits and on vast amount of tables for many hours every day.
I noticed that when I was the first in line on the wait list for the table and the seat became vacant, so I should've been the one to get seated there, but he/she was seated there instead and he/she was not on the wait list even.
After that, I started to watch him/her, the situation continue
I doubt a bot will care too much about their pronouns.
Ok. Here’s the video I recorded when ABX23 gets seated at the tables first, skipping a line completely when there is one.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PDXanyK...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1CASpwCx...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YTputGn...
this is how it works with an inner circle of "elites". everyone in is friends with everyone and the people just outside who is aspiring to join has no interest in burning their chances and "media" don't want to ruffle feathers to lose their connections. it's the same in every industry
Doug Polk is in the outer circle though! :p
Ok. Here’s the video I recorded when ABX23 gets seated at the tables first, skipping a line completely when there is one.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PDXanyK...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1cMBsHNz...
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1YTputGn...
I've corrected the second link here. I just got on the wait list at the tables when he was online and waited, it was all today.
When ABX23 breaks the seating at the tables, in the lobby it will look like this (it's not a good moment, because there's only heads up). Players who are on the waiting list will not be seated at the tables automatically.
This just isn’t as sexy of a topic and not nearly as big of an issue as many as those currently still entrenched online think it is
The first super user was like 15 years ago and it was a past wsop champ insider who could see the hole cards.
Now it’s way later more than ten years after vast majority of poker players consider online to be dead and buried. At least in USA. And it’s an outsider who could see all in equities. I get how seeing the equities is just as good but not as exciting.
Just turn equities off and if ultra concerned about security then your best option is not to play. Maybe some people need to play tic tac toe for thousands of hands like the computer had to in War Games.
There is a reason this thread is dying. Without more proof of super using the topic is kind of over. Sounds like people want Koon or other ambassadors to come out with a statement. What are you expecting to hear from them that would satisfy you?
GG came out and admitted to a security hole that allowed a player to super use for a few weeks, but it was found and fixed. They also said they were going to beef up their security to make sure it doesn't happen again. You want Koon to say the same exact thing?
Unless someone proves they are lying and super users are still playing it's kind of a dead story, no?
There really is nothing more GG can say to make players feel any safer, is there? I wouldn't be sure it can't happen again based on their statement. But nothing really would.
Saying nothing is far far far farrrrrrrrr better than doing a Kenney/Moneymaker and confidently talking about something you know **** all about.
feels like this thread and the ACR one should just be pinned to the top of this forum until the sites demonstrate an ability to solve the bot problem
Saying nothing is far far far farrrrrrrrr better than doing a Kenney/Moneymaker and confidently talking about something you know **** all about.
Honestly wonder what your take would have been if Phil Hellmuth was the "GG Integrity Ambassador". The different standards you apply to different players is baffling.
Lol yeah, I’m talking about the majority of players in general
The vast majority don’t care about the little mini drama going on here.
but if a guy like monkersolver doesnt give 20k back the whole poker world should come together and help and shame?! this thing is so much bigger than you want to acknowledge, and its important for the online community as a whole! Do we as players want a safe and trusted environment or not? Because at least i think thats the most important
but if a guy like monkersolver doesnt give 20k back the whole poker world should come together and help and shame?! this thing is so much bigger than you want to acknowledge, and its important for the online community as a whole! Do we as players want a safe and trusted environment or not? Because at least i think thats the most important
I didn’t care about monkersolver either. In fact I warned that it seemed like a witch hunt with no proof guy got money in error.
If you want a safe and trusted environment don’t play on GG poker. That should have seemed obvious given history of online poker especially on those fringe sites
But talk it through, no one is stopping anyone. Just disagree with stickies and threads piling up
It’s over… GG will survive another day. But this won’t be for very long.
I imagine the next scandal will be something similar to a Black Friday part II.
They are shady, they are suspicious, it’s stinking real hard at this point. There is no way everything will be perfectly fine for the next 3 years.
Maybe by bribing more they can extend their dominance. But nothing is forever.
Jason Koon saying sweet **** all about this scandal has plummeted his reputation in my view
Passionate about site integrity my ****ing arse, what a joke
