Superuser Caught on GGPoker - "MoneyTaker69" Thread
User "MoneyTaker69" is alleged to be superusing on GG Poker.
In December, Moneytaker won at 90bb/100 on GG Poker in 8,900 hands playing 53% VPIP. Soon after, he binked a $150 Sunday MTT for $47,586 while playing an extremely volatile strategy, which aroused a lot of suspicion. GG Poker has acknowledged the situation privately and is preparing to address it, but it's important for the public to know immediately due to the significance of superusing.
The Results
The following results graph comes from Smarthand, a site that tracks online poker results. MoneyTaker won at 90bb/100 in December playing 53/17.
Typically, a player with this VPIP/PFR ratio would be in the -50bb/100 range. Even if we were impossibly generous and said he was breakeven, this run would be a statical anomaly. For a -50bb recreational? Impossible.
Here is a primedope simulation of the probability of a breakeven player having this run.
The following is a simulation of possible runs for a player with a given winrate using primedope's variance calculator. The light blue line at the top of the graph represents the "Best" run, which is the luckiest run a person could have in 1,000 trials.
This is a -50bb player playing 9000 hands. Their luckiest run is around -10 buyins. Mokeytaker won 77 buy-ins.
Additionally, MoneyTaker won a $150 GG Masters Sunday MTT, which is a big open field tournament. This makes the possibility of chip dumping or targeting specific players with a virus much less likely.
The Hands
The following hands were collected by various users as examples of likely foul play.
How is he cheating?
Based off his play, the most natural explanation is that he can see the cards. He rarely puts in money significantly behind or calls the river with the worst hand. Also, his winrate is so high that RTA could not possibly explain it.
It's unclear how he's able to see others' cards, and it's possible he's not the only one exploiting a glitch in the system. A post on 2+2 highlighted a group of suspicious accounts that played for brief stints and won for >30bb/100, which is particularly difficult on GG due to their rake structure.
https://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showp...
There is no clear evidence that the players highlighted in the above post are superusing, but it's not unreasonable to suspect that this could be a larger issue at scale if done by hackers that want to be less obvious than running >50% VPIP.
Hacker Group
"MoneyTaker" is a hacker group. It's unclear if this account is in any way associated with them or if it's just incidental, but worth mentioning.
What's Next?
As a community, we await GG Poker's response. I'm confident they'll do the right thing and share everything they know about this incident shortly.
pretty funny that today GG started their "12 days of resolution" promo, oh the irony
furthermore I got a message from GG saying: As we usher in the new year, we are delighted to offer you the opportunity to revamp your nickname.
So if MoneyTaker would have made it a little bit longer he could have just changed his nickname and would have remained under the radar even longer
This is why online poker is dead and has been for some time
But whenever that gets brought up people just say salty cuz can’t beat nl200 or some nonsense
Online poker isn't dead though. The Moneymaker boom is just over that's all. The vast majority of players are micro/low stakes players. The only thing dead is higher stakes online because anyone smart enough to be a micro/low stakes winner is also smart enough to stay away from higher stakes where all the cheating is. There's also not many micro/lower stakes players smart enough to be winners. So you high stakes online players if you looked at poker like a sports team are basically losing your minor league farm system.
Online poker is dying at high stakes and for good reason. Anyone smart enough to beat micro/low stakes(the slim minority) are also mostly smart enough like me not to get involved in higher stakes because of the cheating or they quit poker long ago because their goal was only ever high stakes and were smart enough to know, learn and see about all the cheating. Decided it wasn't for them.
Anyone who think's online poker is gonna die maybe at high stakes but honestly poker is NEVER dying for the majority of us I wish we could stop with that nonsense comment. Online poker will never die at micro/low stakes because there's too many idiots and stupids playing. Something can't die when there's half a million idiots daily who keep playing for years on a knowingly scummy and cheating site. Poker will also always be profit for the smart micro/low stakes players who are smart, want only a hobby and some extra money.
Fact is poker is one of the best hobbies in the world if your a smart micro/low stakes player. I mean I've never had another hobby I made money at. Hobbies are commonly and mostly endless money pits.
EDIT: If a half smart guy with common sense like me had a cheat like this he could print millions and billions a dollars so easily. With never a risk. And you can all bet your lives someone like me already does have it and who knows what others are out there. <------Easiest bet in the world to win. Yeah high stakes poker is dying 100% because anyone smart with a bit of common sense, worldly experience/knowledge knows how the world works.
Cheers!!!
Mike Postle get away unpunihsed after local regulator was involved and tried to judge his accusers in response. That's all you need to know about how the local regulator works, useless pieces of crap.
Local gambling regulators are just as different as poker networks.
GG got a license in both the Netherlands and Belgium, and those guys are at least tough on paper and all about "protecting the players". In reality they might not have a clue about poker and don't understand the network aspect. At least difficult to understand how they've gotten a license, when the network is considered, their black/dark grey market approach, their lack of anti-money laundering enforcement and now game integrity issues (which aren't new).
In any case, it would be interesting to see what would happen, if a player from one of these markets would submit an official complaint, demanding a thorough review to determine full financial compensation. Go to a mainstream newspaper with it and you can be sure the regulator will take it serious, due to political implications.
There's at least one other client side exploit: Planet Poker's weak RNG. https://worldpokerdeals.com/blog/planet-...
Edit: Eh, maybe not in the same realm as hacking the actual client, but just as exploitable from the client side.
Yeah not even CLOSE to a client-side exploit. RNG is a server-side implementation.
possibly a stupid question but how does one player chip dumping in cash games effect my winrate?
or why should I care?
thnx
it's just further evidence GG is abdicating basic security protocols. it doesn't impact your winrate afaik, at least in the immediate term... if GG turns an absolute blind eye to money laundering and facilitates it at scale, i imagine the risk of becoming the target of a freeze and seize like black friday increases
Local gambling regulators are just as different as poker networks.
GG got a license in both the Netherlands and Belgium, and those guys are at least tough on paper and all about "protecting the players". In reality they might not have a clue about poker and don't understand the network aspect. At least difficult to understand how they've gotten a license, when the network is considered, their black/dark grey market approach, their lack of anti-money laundering enforcement and now game integrity
I always feel it is weird in Netherlands with the gambling authority and them giving or not giving licenses, there must be more going on then I/we know.
I actually wonder what percentage of the player pool of GGpoker is even aware of the MoneyTaker scandal.
There must be lots of recs that never watch poker content or read forums or newssites.
I actually wonder what percentage of the player pool of GGpoker is even aware of the MoneyTaker scandal.
There must be lots of recs that never watch poker content or read forums or newssites.
You don't have follow poker. This is all over the internet. If you have the internet and are on social media you know. Same for everything scummy GG has ever done over the years. You don't need to follow poker to know.....it's everywhere all over the internet. If you have internet you/they know.
Cheers!!!
You don't have follow poker. This is all over the internet. If you have the internet and are on social media you know. Same for everything scummy GG has ever done over the years. You don't need to follow poker to know.....it's everywhere all over the internet. If you have internet you/they know.
Cheers!!!
what % of the player pool reads english ? and how big is poker twitter/ news sites etc in other languages GG serves ?
You don't have follow poker. This is all over the internet. If you have the internet and are on social media you know. Same for everything scummy GG has ever done over the years. You don't need to follow poker to know.....it's everywhere all over the internet. If you have internet you/they know.
Cheers!!!
yeah, if all over the internet = only on poker niche sites
You don't have follow poker. This is all over the internet. If you have the internet and are on social media you know. Same for everything scummy GG has ever done over the years. You don't need to follow poker to know.....it's everywhere all over the internet. If you have internet you/they know.
Cheers!!!
Where is it "all over the internet"? Which mainstream media source is covering it?
I wouldn't have known anything about it without this thread.
BREAKING NEWS!!!!
Majority of 2+2 members live under rocks or don't browse the internet outside of these forums.
Cheers!!!
I don't think it is on non-poker related social media, its also not on mainstream media.
more players will not know than players who will know
and thats what gg is counting on
Imagine believing online poker players don't follow poker players on social media. Naïve. Which plenty of poker players have covered this.
Some may not know yet maybe even the slim majority because of the holiday season. But sooner or later the vast majority will know. When they do I'll bet nothing changes.
Cheers!!!
Imagine believing online poker players don't follow poker players on social media. Naïve. Which plenty of poker players have covered this.
The poker players I follow on social media are the ones I am friends with. If anyone of them has posted about it, I didn't see it on my timeline.
I'm sure a lot of poker players have seen it because they follow someone like Doug Polk but it's definitely not "all over the internet". It's on poker related websites and poker related social media. I'm certainly not the only player who doesn't consume much of that.
OTOH, a "Poker Night presented by GG Poker" with celebrities was all over the frontpage of Germany's biggest online (and print) newspaper two days ago.
The poker players I follow on social media are the ones I am friends with. If anyone of them has posted about it, I didn't see it on my timeline.
I'm sure a lot of poker players have seen it because they follow someone like Doug Polk but it's definitely not "all over the internet". It's on poker related websites and poker related social media. I'm certainly not the only player who doesn't consume much of that.
Yeah I'll bet you're also not a micro/low stakes player either. Well from as a 20 year micro/low stakes player I can assure the majority of my pool are pro and high stakes poker fans. They follow them on the internet and social media. These same micro/low stake players also browse the internet while playing poker. Wanna guess what the mainly browse? Poker news sites and such.
You mid and high stakes guys are really outta touch with the pulse and tendencies of the majority of the micro/low stakes online pools.
Cheers!!!
Also majority of micro/low stakes guys aren't like you mid-higher stakes guys. While they're poker players most more so are fans of higher stake players. They hunt them out on social media and browse every site they know looking for poker news.
You mid-higher stakes and guys don't that stuff to near their extent. Which makes it not shocking you hear about it here.
Cheers!!!
Are you actually being thick enough to say that only English language sites covered this story? REALLY???
im just saying the social reach isnt as prevalent,
do we have links of gg announcements of this in 10 different languages?
I'm sure they have , i guess i see it from my end in america. does gg have chat in its client ?
like i dont know who the ambassadors are for the other countries but i havent seen a peep from dnegs or koons account.
