Israel/Palestine thread

The guys name I keep referencing was Mosab Yousef FWIW. Anyways, he said he spent half his life in Palestinian society and saw nothing but a violent, destructive culture that tore everyone down; and spent the second half in Israel in a culture that did nothing but build him up and give him a life and hope. And he picked life and hope.

Do you really think in some hypothetical if the Palestinians just laid down their arms and stopped fighting Israel would take the opportunity to enact something like the Turkish genocide of Greeks or Armenians? (2 of the biggest real genocides in modern history, which we ignore for reasons)

Of course not. The Palestinians would not get their maximalist demands if they just made peace, but their lives would immediately improve 1000x and they would get a lot, including the opportunity to build a functional state.

Israel is not the monster all the propagandists say they are. And making up some fake narrative they are and constructing a fake moral equivalence serves no productive purpose. Israel are fighting a war against an implacable, genocidal, nihilistic force of destruction (the Palestinian political project) and wars suck.

There is no horseshoe theory at work.

You'll have clips of this violence carried out by campus student protestors, then.

I generally agree.

The problem is their ideas are horrible and destructive; so when they are appeased and their ideas are implemented, bad things happen. Generally, our political elites just ignore them and they dont negatively impact much; but there is always the danger (which increases with each generation) some sympathetic govt will come around and start enacting policy around far left wing radical ideas, and it would be very destructive.

This is totally horseshoe theory at work. Why can't Hamas and the Israel government both be monsters? You're oversimplifying this. This is exactly what the protestors you hate are doing, just flipping the names.

Ironically, this is the how a free market would work minus the destruction and defacement of property, of course. Protesting is a fundamental necessity in a hierarchical society to create and maintain a free society. I'm all for prosecuting the vandals and I'm not saying the protestors are well-informed (I teach higher ed, FWIW, so I'm around these kids all the time), but the protest movement is generally pretty harmless.

Hamas is a lot less monstrous than Israel. the only argument is that Hamas would be worse than Israel given the chance. so thats why they say Hamas would do the Holocaust bc then they can justify the most monstrous genocide of our time.

if the schools would have just ignored the protest movement, then nothing would have happened. instead its blown up to something huge.

Yes, please remind that violence against property is still violence, and I think you saw a lot of those videos yourself, there are a lot in the public domain.

Yes. I understand it is mostly just right wing click bait, and the protests themselves are harmless (but entertaining). It is just sad how low information and stupid they are. You would expect more. These kids* are not future revolutionaries that are going to bring down Western civilization. They are future HR managers.

I have some concern the state is opening themselves up to lawsuits I am going to have to pay with my tax dollars. Last time I checked it was against the law for gangs to set up checkpoints on public land and not allow people through said checkpoints based on their political beliefs. But the state wastes so much on dumb ****, probably just a drop in the bucket.

*I read somewhere the average age of protestors arrested at one of the encampments was 27, and was overwhelmingly female. Probably something there about single, childless young women looking for meaning. But that is a different discussion for a different day.

I do, this is the continuation of BLM summer of pillage, of J6, of yellow vests, of environmental radicals ruining monuments and blocking highways and so on.

I care a lot about how we deal with these domestic cancers in the west.

Fairly happy to see they used law enforcement albeit a tad late, but I was fearing the terrorist supporters would have been allowed to do more before intervention

You didn't answer the question. What happens if the Palestinians give up on their maximalist demands and stop fighting? Peace and prosperity for all.

What happens if Israel stops? Death and destruction and chaos for all.

Israel is in a tough spot. Maybe they are handling it good, maybe they aren't. But I dont see the moral equivalence, and I think it dangerous to suggest any.

It really is that simple.

They all occupied land illegally this round, ofc if you are so much to the left occupation of other people property isn't anything, you will find them harmless.

Anyone else won't though.

Can protests without violating other people property you know? But they know people wouldn't give a **** if they aren't able to actually disrupt them so ...

I think Hamas is putting it's citizens in harms way.

You don't see them protest against Hamas. They are certainly tacit supporters of Hamas. I'm sure the majority of them were happy about what happened on Oct 7th.

We need to cleanup the mess in this country first now that Hamas has breached our borders.

This is something from the podcast I forgot to mention, which Western media leave out because it is not convenient to the narrative.

When Hamas abandons a structure they boobytrap everything. Which is one of the reasons abandoned structures are destroyed by the IDF when taken over, when there is no obvious military reason. The tunnels are also heavily booby trapped which is why Israel cant just rush in soldiers guns blazing.

And it is more likely a Palestinian civilian is going to walk into the booby trap than IDF. But either way it is a win for Hamas. Either they get some IDF casualties or some Palestinian ones they can blame on IDF. Win/win.

I think we tremendously underestimate how many Palestinian casualties are from Hamas own missiles/bombs/"friendly" fire/booby traps.

I don't see people getting on boats leaving this country. Now look at the type of people the Middle East has produced.

I simply call it as I see it. I'm sorry the truth bothers you.

I think people don't realize that Israel is the size of New Jersey. They are surrounded by homicidal Jew haters. They have tried to play nice but it didn't work. The fact that they haven't completely leveled Gaza shows they are good people. The brutality that Israel does show is what keeps other nations from attacking. They know what's coming if they do.

Show they freely support Hamas, not that they think the IDF is worse.

The protests are showing the world what type of people Israel is up against. Ironically, the focus is on the protests not what is happening in Gaza. Israel is sitting back and laughing. It seems Palestinians are not great decision makers. They are hated even more now they have decided to illegally occupy campuses and streets.

By that analysis, you support the repression of the Uyghurs since you haven't protested it.

Nonsense. Prove it.

jibberish

your side will lose. just like you lost in Vietnam and in South Africa.

The majority of these kids are out there to have fun. They are losers in real life. They couldn't get into the frats. They couldn't get into the sports. This is their way to fight against the man. Most of these people have no idea why these protests are happening other than "Free free Palestine". They have been brainwashed by professional protest organizers. these are the types of kids who end up in cults. It must be embarrassing that these are the losers representing the cause.

People elsewhere being brutalised by war doesn't make your country any less of a shithole, especially when you take into account many of the people leeaving their countries are doing so because of the policies/behaviour of your governments over many decades.

My side is the US. Slowly but surely these encampments are being wiped out. Students who have participated in these riots are being expelled. Patriots are starting to fight back. We need Trump in the White House to finish the job. I hate Trump but realize we need a Republican to fight this terrorism.