Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]
sorry this is not true. there were calls for an unconditional ceasefire from the left before the oct 7 bodies were cold
"we are on the side of peace"
It was pretty obvious what was coming and JC is quite right to to say it was alarming and descalation was needed. That's about as mild as anyone could be.
You have the result of what would most likely happen and it's far from over - if you became suprised later then you should perhaps have a serious rethink
Do you ever take a moment's pause to consider whether any reasonable situation would lead to 65 year old Jewish professor being suspended for six months for trying to defend her students from the police, or is your mentality so bound up with obedience at any cost that you are oblivious to any consequences?
Sounds very beta.
France and then the US wanted to control the natural resources in Vietnam. At the time (when the war started) rubber was the most important of those. Also it was to send a message to other developing countries that they might get bombed for 11 years if they try to keep a larger share of the value of their natural resources.
The more usual explanation is that the US under Roosevelt, during the war, saw the USSR as its good buddy and future co-ruler of the anti-imperialist post-war world. Roosevelt then died before he fully realised how wrong he was, and how right Churchill was to warn him against Stalin's intentions. Under Truman, the US then received several shocks to its worldview. First, Stalin's refusal to hold free elections in Poland, which essentially triggered the Cold War and made the US very receptive to Churchill's Fulton, Missouri 'Iron Curtain' speech. (https://www.nationalchurchillmuseum.org/...) Second, Stalin's Berlin Blockade of 1948 and the Allies' successful Berlin Airlift in response. And third, Mao's Communist victory in the Chinese civil war in 1949, adding another Red power to the balance, which led the Americans to see Communism as a spreading contagion, antithetical to the American Way, which must be fought. (Indeed it made Americans a bit paranoid, hence McCarthyism, flying-saucer mania and Hollywood alien-invasion movies.) Meanwhile Project Venona, the US decryption of extremely difficult Soviet ciphers dating back to wartime, began to reveal that the USSR had engaged in serious and damaging espionage against the US. Truman then decided to finance the French war against Ho Chi Minh's communists in Indo-China. When the French bailed out, Eisenhower unwisely gave a US commitment to a war already lost. The Americans imagined that they could replicate Britain's success against the 'Communist Terrorists' in Malaya, but failed to recognise that the CTs were mostly ethnic Chinese and were hated by the Malay majority, who would happily inform on their movements to the British, a consideration that did not apply in Vietnam, where the Communist Party was also the sole nationalist party and there was no ethnic divide.
Do you ever take a moment's pause to consider whether any reasonable situation would lead to 65 year old Jewish professor being suspended for six months for trying to defend her students from the police, or is your mentality so bound up with obedience at any cost that you are oblivious to any consequences?
Sounds very beta.
Law enforcement was put into a very difficult and dangerous situation. Everybody knew this was gonna come to an end one way or another. I don't know the details of the professors situation but I am assuming faculty was warned not to participate in any way. I have no doubt her motivations were pure. The problem is many times when people step in as peace keepers they actually escalate the situation. They give legitimacy to the protestors which emboldens them to continue. At minimum it looks like they made law enforcements job more difficult. There are consequences to all actions. I hope her suspension is reduced but she put herself into this position.
The divide that the US tried to play in Vietnam was religious. The South Vietnamese power structure was Catholic and you see that in the refugee community. This is in Orange County - a population center for people who evacuated at the end of the war.
Protest groups at the University of Minnesota have agreed to take down the encampments in exchange for the University just disclosing some of its investments in Israel and inviting some students to comment during meetings about divestment.
Students and staff were warned way in advance to leave and that police would be coming
It is of course possible that a unrepentant narcissist's personal interest could converge with the national interest as a matter of pure happenstance, but I would feel more comfortable with a president who at least recognizes the conceptual difference between the two.
I would venture to say that the best doctors and lawyers got that good more to help themselves than to help others. Jonas Salk may be the only exception.
Protest groups at the University of Minnesota have agreed to take down the encampments in exchange for the University just disclosing some of its investments in Israel and inviting some students to comment during meetings about divestment.
the amount of nothing it takes to simply engage in discussion with the students makes the people cheering for police violence look even more batshit.
Getting arrested is not a big deal. Even getting maced is not a big deal. Not for the kids. You never throw an unarmed 65 year old woman to the ground though. Never.
Students can protest
Teachers can protest and protect
When the university says please disperses, police will be here in 24 hours, you will be arrested and or expelled if you don't leave, i have no sympathy for those who were arrested and or expelled. That goes for Students, staff, and the 40% who are agitators and not Students or staff
Freedom of speech does not mean no consequences for breaking the law or ignoring school staff
the amount of nothing it takes to simply engage in discussion with the students makes the people cheering for police violence look even more batshit.
The police are called after days of protest to clear the area, not be social workers
McCarthism failed for all the parts in which it didn't follow the rule of law yes, and also because it stopped, while McCarthism (a much more powerful version, within the system) should have been enshrined in the law and become a staple legal pillar of all western societies.We should have criminalized marxism (and everything that derives from it) properly , within the rule of l
Speaking of horseshoe theory, this is exactly what Nazis and Bolsheviks did with their political enemies
Protest groups at the University of Minnesota have agreed to take down the encampments in exchange for the University just disclosing some of its investments in Israel and inviting some students to comment during meetings about divestment.
They got off even easier than the University that agreed to a vote-- they just have disclose some of their investments... Hopefully none of these kids are in business school.
Speaking of horseshoe theory, this is exactly what Nazis and Bolsheviks did with their political enemies
No they did it RETROACTIVELY JFC.
I would pass laws to criminalize Marxism and then if you are a Marxist but stop acting as such and never do anything marxist we are fine.
Nazism criminalized a condition of ancestry you can't control. Soviets criminalized being useful to society (IE having higher income or wealth) and killed you just to take your stuff.
Do you see the difference? Do you understand what it means to decide, democratically, as a society, that something is not allowed because it is inimical to the very core of what you believe your society to be about, and only from that point punishing it?
I would venture to say that the best doctors and lawyers got that good more to help themselves than to help others. Jonas Salk may be the only exception.
Researchers yes, doctors on the field no, it's like being a missionary, it's never just about the money.
If you can be a good surgeon you are in the top 1-5% of intellectual quality so you can make 200k+ in plenty of other careers with 0 responsibility for any actual human life, normal hours and far less stress.
Do you ever take a moment's pause to consider whether any reasonable situation would lead to 65 year old Jewish professor being suspended for six months for trying to defend her students from the police, or is your mentality so bound up with obedience at any cost that you are oblivious to any consequences?
Sounds very beta.
Maybe she wasn't "trying to defend her students", maybe she is just a criminal who was illegally occupying property to profess her radical leftist ideology and should be punished for that.
The police are called after days of protest to clear the area, not be social workers
i'm not expecting the police to do anything smart ever. the police fought hard to not have to hire intelligent people. acab.
i'm saying the university admin are dumb and probably shouldn't have jobs after this. and that the people that are relishing in police violence on college kids are awful human beings. also once again the students will be on the right side of history.
Campus protests
Civil rights
Vietnam
Iraq
Occupy wall street
Palestine
Decent track record
Campus protests
Civil rights
Vietnam
Iraq
Occupy wall street
Palestine
Decent track record
a liberal is someone who supports every protest except the current one
new way to die from air drops
not to worry, the old way is still happening
liberals support hunger games
Researchers yes, doctors on the field no, it's like being a missionary, it's never just about the money.
If you can be a good surgeon you are in the top 1-5% of intellectual quality so you can make 200k+ in plenty of other careers with 0 responsibility for any actual human life, normal hours and far less stress.
The point is that it is not "happenstance" as Rococo stated, that a narcistic politician has goals that coincide with the national interest. It is not random luck. (Meanwhile the best surgeons in the US make about twice as much as you think. Plus, they feel psychologically powerful in a way that a CPA doesn't.))
