Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
Posting guidelines for Politics and Soci...
These are our baselines. We're not reinventing the wheel here. If you aren't sure if something is acceptable to post, its better to ask first. If you think someone is posting something that violates the above guidelines, please report it or PM me rather than responding in kind.
To reiterate some of the points:
1. No personal attacks. This is a broad instruction, but, in general, we want to focus on attacking an argument rather than the poster making it. It is fine to say a post is antisemitic; it is not okay to call someone an antisemite over and over. If you believe someone is making antisemitic posts, report them or PM me. The same goes for calling people "baby killers" and "genocide lovers". You are allowed to argue that an action supports genocide or that the consequences of certain policies results in the death of children, but we are no longer going to be speaking to one another's intentions. It is not productive to the conversation and doesn't further any debate.
2. Racist posts and other bigoted statements that target a particular group or individuals of such groups with derogatory comments are not allowed. This should not need further explanation.
3. Graphic Images need to be in spoilers with a trigger warning.
4. Wishing Harm on other posters will result in an immediate timeout.
5. Genocidal statements such as "Kill 'em all" etc, are no longer permissible in the thread.
If anyone has any questions about the above, please PM me. I don't want a discussion about the rules to derail the content of this thread. If anything needs clarifying, I will do that in this thread.
Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
Pro Israel groups are pushing more inside parties than switching parties.
Which is ok: when a seat is safe, getting a pro Israel person is fundamental, they don't play the party game, they play the Israel game
You go against Israel at your own risk
Does the US blockade Mexico? I don't approve of borders, but still, no, controlling who comes into your country does not equal blockading another country.
I mean, this much is so obvious that how can this debate happen without name calling? It's just stupid and it just prolongs bullshit making the discussion even less on point.
And then Israel evicted a million people from their homes. Why Egypt should be obligated to pay for any of this is not clear. It's like America bombing the **** out of Tijuana and demanding that Gutemala take in the refugees.
Also, Egypt doesn't want to get bombed by Israel next, which will obviously happen.
I'll take South Africa a million times over Nazi Germany, but I just want to point out. In Israel:
- There are no laws mandating segregation in public facilities
- Israel doesn't have laws that discriminate/classify by ethnicity
- There aren't interfaith marriage laws that I know of like there were in SA
- Arab citizens of Israel have full and equal citizenship rights
- Arab citizens may vote, they may hold office, and serve at all levels of government. There are Arabs in the Knesset
- Arab Israelis h
false
false
dont know
false
who cares
false
false
This is not what mets means, but basically any country that doesn't allow refugees deserves blame. But only one country blockades Gaza and that's Israel.
right now Egypt should be looked at as no more than an extension of the USA and thus Israel. they are a comprador regime.
the Hasbara talking point is meant to play on assumptions that Muslims oppose Israel. they dont.
And then Israel evicted a million people from their homes. Why Egypt should be obligated to pay for any of this is not clear. It's like America bombing the **** out of Tijuana and demanding that Gutemala take in the refugees.
Also, Egypt doesn't want to get bombed by Israel next, which will obviously happen.
So the story is Israel doesn't want anyone to leave, but israel wants everyone to leave to steal the land
Israel wants to gazans gone so they can steal the land by they would bomb egypt for letting them leave so they can settle the land
That's your argument right?
I need to digest that for at least 72 hours before i can even try to respond
Hey google
Does Egypt stop Gazans from leaving by sea?
Yes, Egypt controls the Rafah crossing, which is the only way for Gazans to leave the Gaza Strip by sea. The Rafah crossing is located on Gaza's southern border with Egypt's Sinai Peninsula.
Egypt has tightly controlled the Rafah crossing, only allowing free passage to those with a foreign passport, a foreign country appealing on their behalf, or approved medical treatment in Egypt. For most Gazans, the only way out is to pay.
Egypt may not want to let Palestinians from Gaza in for several reasons, including:
Security concerns
Egypt is fighting Islamist insurgents in Sinai, and there is a fear that militants may escape into Egypt from Gaza.
Undermining Palestinian statehood
Egypt's authoritarian president, Abdel Fattah el-Sisi, has said that he rejects Palestinians being displaced.
No guarantee of return
There's no guarantee that Palestinians who fled would ever be able to return to Gaza.
You're both dumb and dishonest. Rafah is the crossing into Egypt and you know this. Gaza City has/had a port. Gaza has/had an airport. Israel controls these things. Gazan's were allowed to go out in boats and fish, but only go out 6 miles because Israeli naval vessels stopped them. Egypt didn't do any of this. Either you're too ****ing stupid or too ****ing dishonest to participate in any kind of intelligent discussion.
If someone ACTUALLY wants to do a deep dive into life as an Arab in Israel, this collection of blog posts is excellent. You'll find many Arab authors and it's not flattering either
https://en.idi.org.il/tags-en/1905
So really deep dive stuff like
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/36215
And you'll see REAL problems in there. This one above covers that Israeli schools still aren't hiring enough Arab teachers (and why), and the steps underway to fix that
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/30961
That's on the Arab Israeli vote
https://en.idi.org.il/articles/26898
Arab Israeli women in the workforce
There are real issues. Still too big a disparity in income and poverty for example. But we've seen this actually start to trend far better of late. And one of the interesting stats on this poverty disparity for example is that it's not just Arabs. It's also the Haredim, the Jewish Orthodox. They are far more poor. So poor Jews too, if anyone is trying to keep score.
https://www.taubcenter.org.il/en/researc.... (figures are old but the trend holds today too)
Arabs die younger too. But these trends are VERY similar to what we see in African American communities in other countries for example. I actually think it's nearly identical. Blacks die 6 years sooner in the USA on average I believe? Last I checked the number was similar in Israel for Arabs (5-6). But in the USA we stop well short of calling that Apartheid. But as humans we have to close those gaps, that's a long term imperative to any good country imho.
Things can be way way better. And they have to be. You'll get no argument from me.
You're both dumb and dishonest. Rafah is the crossing into Egypt and you know this. Gaza City has/had a port. Gaza has/had an airport. Israel controls these things. Gazan's were allowed to go out in boats and fish, but only go out 6 miles because Israeli naval vessels stopped them. Egypt didn't do any of this. Either you're too ****ing stupid or too ****ing dishonest to participate in any kind of intelligent discussion.
Sigh.
So now I'm going to have to ask you to take a timeout from this thread for the rest of the evening. You can come back at 12:00AM EST. Please don't disregard this because then I have to do more to you and I don't want to. Thanks, friend.
To everyone else. engaging with the above post is a bad idea, so please don't. 👍
Sorry this is so much work Crossnerds. I thought the rules seemed relatively easy tbh.
So the story is Israel doesn't want anyone to leave, but israel wants everyone to leave to steal the land
Israel wants to gazans gone so they can steal the land by they would bomb egypt for letting them leave so they can settle the land
That's your argument right?
I need to digest that for at least 72 hours before i can even try to respond
Israel wants the Palestinians out of Gaza (which is explicitly ethnic cleansing, but that's a discussion for another day).
Also, if the Palestinians are forced into refugee camps in Egypt, the IDF will magically discover hidden Hamas bases like they always do there and they'll start bombing them. None of this is terribly complicated. Israel wants the land and Bibi needs a perpetual crisis to stay in power.
