Detecting Bots: Uncovering Insights from GGPoker Data Analysis
This report exists solely thanks to datamaning and mass data analysys (MDA)
I have examined cash games on GGPoker over the past six months and conducted an analysis of bots based on the y2da report. I have identified 15 bots (11 inactive and 4 active).
Results:
What Identifies Them as Bots:
1) The combination of WWSF and WaSD is remarkable. These statistics are unusually high, which is challenging for humans to achieve. Currently, it's rare to find a regular player with this combination.
2) Their 58% WaSD suggests that their checking ranges out of position (OOP) on the river are strong enough to win at showdowns when opponents check behind, with an average fold rate of 47% against bets afterward. Most human players have higher fold rates.
Check OOP River Total (1x1 Pot)
3) Their construction of a C-betting range on the flop implies weaker ranges in larger bet sizings, leading to higher fold rates (around 50-55%) versus check-raises after C-bets between 45-90% of the pot.
4) In single raised pot (SRP) scenarios, their C-bet sizing in three-way pots does not fall below 40% when facing at least one opponent in position against them. However, this detail was omitted from their solution but may be included in future updates.
SRP Raiser Cbet 3-Way Pot vs OOP/OOP (SB+BB) - Small Betsizing exist
SRP Raiser Cbet 3-Way Pot vs IP/OOP (IP+SB/BB) - Small Betsizing does not exist
SRP Raiser Cbet 3-Way Pot vs IP/IP - Small Betsizing does not exist
**** happens that they forgot to write it into the solution, probably add it in the future.
5) Their winnings graph shows a minor downturn occurring between January 9-16.
During this period, they experienced significant losses and played many random hands, which is improbable for a skilled regular player with such a graph.
For a detailed mathematical proof, refer to the link provided.
https://mega.nz/file/Mj5gmJwB#KJigZvfPzm...
You can also access hands played by the bots to verify and develop methods for detecting them in the future.
https://mega.nz/file/YqAW2aDI#3dPlzTuEee...
I am sharing this work to illustrate the importance of openly disseminating data about the game and the advantages of employing specialists in poker big data analysis. While some consider poker player education schools detrimental to the gaming ecosystem, they also produce data scientists. Following my reports on bots in the Winning Poker Network (WPN), independent teams have emerged to detect and report them, thereby fostering fairer gameplay. I hope this trend continues, with more teams working to identify cheaters at the tables. I will continue conducting research and posting findings on suspicious cases on GGPoker to contribute to a more transparent and fair gaming environment.
There can be no fair game when crucial information is concealed.
i thought GG acted swiftly on seating scripts... apparently they dont
so they do warn/ban bumhunters but allow the scripters, weird strategy
iam pretty sure the bot problem is way over our head. Given my H2note analysis most of the fishes on GG poker have AGG frequencies arround 33/33/33 (1million sample).
And i see by random players all day long unreal calldowns or really unnatural lines with value or bluffs. i think the site is full of bots especially between nl25-200.Moreover i think
there are different kind of bots like crusher bots be bots slightly lossing bots.
Any Bots at PLO Cash at GG?
Think the most worrying thing is how often new accounts appear at 200 or 500nl, play 9 tables for a week or two, then disappear. So by the time there is enough of a sample for them to raise suspicions they are gone and probably replaced with another account which is also a bot. Can't prove anything but it certainly feels strange.
Think the most worrying thing is how often new accounts appear at 200 or 500nl, play 9 tables for a week or two, and then disappear. So by the time there is enough of a sample for them to raise suspicions they are gone and probably replaced with another account which is also a bot. Can't prove anything but it certainly feels strange.
Yes, it is worrying indeed, but this is the new landscape of online poker, and we as players cannot do much. All we can do is be attentive to the players of the pools we are playing, do these investigations ourselves, and report the findings. As much as sites tell to the public how they care about a safe gaming environment, they care about the rake generated bit more. The problem on the horizon is the ban of data mining, without that we cannot do these investigations, stat comparisons on suspected accounts, etc
Not sure this happens as much.
100-200nl pool has been the main objective of these group of botters and so far theres been 2 waves that end up either playing 30-50k hands and leave or end up banned.
Tyler has given us enough info not only to battle them accordingly on the tables but to also identify patterns so we can confirm they are bots fast and report them.
The only problem was that gg was not recieving the info or not acting fast enough, i believe using r/ggpoker could solve this, they answered pretty fast after a report was created and the accounts left (either by quitting at that precise moment or getting banned)
We do need mining to make this much easier tho, and its pretty obvious that ggpoker security team cannot identify bots fast enough. They only act once pointed in a specifc direction.
How those bots crush limits that high? players sleep?
bots are getting better at poker
yeah i know but still it's not NL5 or NL10... to crush NL200 and above where players are serious about their game how come they let bots take their money at that rate? so maybe they can beat even NL1K and above?
yes they probably can beat nl1k and above, pools however are much smaller and they'd be a lot easier to detect for regs
These bots can even beat HS they are playing better than most of the Hs regs.
Their ratio w$sd to their wwsf is insane i dont know how they doing it. I asked many HS regs they dont know it either.
And obv they dont play Hs because all of the regs would boycott the games.
And to their secruity Team its obv that their secruity is comp bs they cant even detect the most obv bots.
I mean its hard to detect bots with 5 different opening sizings like 20 plus accounts playing nearly the same stats.
Their ratio w$sd to their wwsf is insane i dont know how they doing it. I asked many HS regs they dont know it either.
Is winning at showdown with a high WWSF something that could be explained by cardsharing?
Do they play at the same table?
Makes sense that if you know some dead cards you can bluffcatch and bluff more effectively which could account for that.
Is winning at showdown with a high WWSF something that could be explained by cardsharing?
Do they play at the same table?
Makes sense that if you know some dead cards you can bluffcatch and bluff more effectively which could account for that.
Occasionally they are at the same table, but not def not always. My guess is that card sharing is not included in their strategy
These bots can even beat HS they are playing better than most of the Hs regs.
Their ratio w$sd to their wwsf is insane i dont know how they doing it. I asked many HS regs they dont know it either.
And obv they dont play Hs because all of the regs would boycott the games.
And to their secruity Team its obv that their secruity is comp bs they cant even detect the most obv bots.
I mean its hard to detect bots with 5 different opening sizings like 20 plus accounts playing nearly the same stats.
I have feeling that most HS regs can be worse than lets say NL1K regs, for example lately H Rodriguez who usually plays NL40K+ on GG also played NL1K 9k hand where he's losing at rate -25BB per 100 hand but he's winner at NL40K+ hmm also atm Stefan Burakov is 9tabling NL1K who is also losing at rate approximately -3BB per 100 hand over 45k hand sample
Btw what is those crusher bots w$sd to their wwsf ratio that is hardly achievable to humans can you explain more to it please?
I have feeling that most HS regs can be worse than lets say NL1K regs, for example lately H Rodriguez who usually plays NL40K+ on GG also played NL1K 9k hand where he's losing at rate -25BB per 100 hand but he's winner at NL40K+ hmm also atm Stefan Burakov is 9tabling NL1K who is also losing at rate approximately -3BB per 100 hand over 45k hand sample
Btw what is those crusher bots w$sd to their wwsf ratio that is hardly achievable to humans can you explain more to it please?
You’re on to something, keep investigating
classic case of "move up where they respect your raises"
Yeah guys why is that hard to digest what I'm saying?
Super high stake regs can have different qualities like better table selecting, better bankroll management, better way to deal with swings, play big money games without pressure etc
Some top regs like Linus, Malinowski, Berry and few more can be way ahead of any stake ofc but I'm talking about others who can be worse than NL1K regs
Anyway i think it'd be better to not go offtopic with this and lets talk about bots
Yeah guys why is that hard to digest what I'm saying?
Super high stake regs can have different qualities like better table selecting, better bankroll management, better way to deal with swings, play big money games without pressure etc
Some top regs like Linus, Malinowski, Berry and few more can be way ahead of any stake ofc but I'm talking about others who can be worse than NL1K regs
Anyway i think it'd be better to not go offtopic with this and lets talk about bots
Because the evidence to support your claim is a 9k and a 45k sample. It’s hard to take anything serious after that.
Fwiw, Stefan just doesn’t seem to care. I’ve played a bit with him this month and he plays every single openseat he can find, literally 0 table selecting. Seems hard to win that way before rb at 1k.
I have feeling that most HS regs can be worse than lets say NL1K regs, for example lately H Rodriguez who usually plays NL40K+ on GG also played NL1K 9k hand where he's losing at rate -25BB per 100 hand but he's winner at NL40K+ hmm also atm Stefan Burakov is 9tabling NL1K who is also losing at rate approximately -3BB per 100 hand over 45k hand sample
Btw what is those crusher bots w$sd to their wwsf ratio that is hardly achievable to humans can you explain more to it please?
lol any of those HS regs would demolish 1k on gg if they actually put volume in, you actually think stefan is a -3bb loser at 1k even with bad table selecting? no way. i don't think everyone realizes how far ahead HS regs are compared to everyone else
Hi I have some ideas about this and I'm just putting together a small counter group that can work on behalf of the players to suss out the cheating some more. If anyone feels interested or relevant they can contact me here: [email]vretyu2222@proton.me[/email]
edit: obviously the cheaters are reading this and we have to rationally suspect some of them have infiltrated 2p2
Ive played a bit with the ACR bot profile and I believe it plays similar to bots I’ve played on Chico (~2019). For me, it plays nothing like gto. I believe it’s designed to attack population tendencies. I can discuss w/anyone via pm but Idw post hands here.
It is also very similar to party poker bots from ~10 years ago.
I also played tons of hands vs them on party back in the day and i play even now on italian fenced sites knowing their are bots since the first hand they play.
Most of their huge WWSF must come from the multiway pots which they just bomb relentlessly especially oop (i think they base it on their stronger oop range vs range rather than blockers).
Limped pots are also aggro fiesta with them. They gonna stab like 98% of the turns/rivers, the other 2% being when they have any piece of the board and they`ll nicely x/c it down.
I know for sure they can see some stats, they know each other but i am also pretty confident they are not colluding in any way(can explain in pm if anyone interested).They dont really need to either giving the millions they make.
Once you spotted them as bots they are exploitable.
Look for very high wwsf in your pool over decent sample. When there is more than couple players like that start paying attention.
Also for the guys compiling their hands, try to look at their opening ranges, you`ll notice weird stuff like missing all the A8 of certain suit from certain position and stuff like that.
Think the most worrying thing is how often new accounts appear at 200 or 500nl, play 9 tables for a week or two, then disappear. So by the time there is enough of a sample for them to raise suspicions they are gone and probably replaced with another account which is also a bot. Can't prove anything but it certainly feels strange.
It might have something to do with the way they get money out of the sites.
Started happening on my sites (fenced sites) after the ukrain war started and them being russian maybe they get their skrill blocked or something like that.
Had at some point for few months like 10 new accounts every tuesday and they all played for exactly 1 week.
We have like 6 tables of nl50 at peak time so not hard to figure them out from the first hand.
It is also very similar to party poker bots from ~10 years ago.
I also played tons of hands vs them on party back in the day and i play even now on italian fenced sites knowing their are bots since the first hand they play.
Most of their huge WWSF must come from the multiway pots which they just bomb relentlessly especially oop (i think they base it on their stronger oop range vs range rather than blockers).
Limped pots are also aggro fiesta with them. They gonna stab like 98% of the turns/rivers,
It might have something to do with the way they get money out of the sites.
Started happening on my sites (fenced sites) after the ukrain war started and them being russian maybe they get their skrill blocked or something like that.
Had at some point for few months like 10 new accounts every tuesday and they all played for exactly 1 week.
We have like 6 tables of nl50 at peak time so not hard to figure them out from the first hand.
I have some info on this please dm until I get an ok I can comment on it in public.
Ladies and gentlemen of the 2+2 forum, this time I have something truly special for you. Our latest investigation uncovers a complex web involving collusion, multi-accounting, chipdumping, potential bot activity, and a dash of high-stakes gambling addiction.
To start, we found a chain of nicknames, each playing 30-50k hands at NL500 and NL1000 before switching accounts. All these accounts are losing players employing the same strategy.
At first glance, it seems like one person constantly changing their name for unknown reasons.
But then we discovered another chain.
These nicknames are also losing and use the same strategy as the first list, with slight differences between aliases.
It struck us as odd that someone would continue this behavior while losing, so we analyzed the most winning opponents against these lists and found something intriguing.
Most of these nicknames have one or a few opponents to whom they lose significantly, at an abnormal rate.
When we examined this winners' list, we were surprised to find they use the same exact strategy as the green and purple lists. The only difference lies in the final results, yet their strategic frequencies and gameplay basis are identical.
Next, we analyzed the best friends of these money-receiving nicknames.
Interestingly, some of the yellow accounts, after receiving chipdumps, moved up to the highest limits, NL20k and NL40k, like "Herna Monaco," and lost there. Crazy, right?
We discovered several donators who don't fit into the green or purple lists but lose their profits to the yellow list and also use the same strategy design as all nicknames above.
Finally, we examined strategy patterns and identified a few more accounts that aren’t directly involved in chipdumping but still employ a strategy very similar to all the lists above.
What’s interesting is that many of them are fresh. For instance, "rarabra" and "Baluexeand" started playing on the same day, seemingly dropping the idea of chipdumping to enhance their PVI. Another interesting nickname is "Mike Schoon", who started playing in early 2023, battled at high stakes with elite players, and ended his career quickly.
Attached are the hands of all the highlighted players for you to examine and draw your own conclusions.
https://mega.nz/file/Wk1WzaQB#HyLBVDSZJu...
This is one of the most intriguing cases we've researched so far. Please share your thoughts.
Donate us to feel involved:
BTC: 3NCGQ6kiKVRVf2HCdXPGGsdvwTNZcnXpNX
ETH: 0x32fAa44bf82B8565c67bF551F801BB1feA7eC5F0
USDT (TRC20): TNxEzYgoYMcoyHmLuJYtxSKNsXDwHtThu5
TON: UQDEMfu7YIOp8di0rN__G_elC6SdZLERJvAcU3z0nUwRNVti
Ive played a bit with the ACR bot profile and I believe it plays similar to bots I’ve played on Chico (~2019). For me, it plays nothing like gto. I believe it’s designed to attack population tendencies. I can discuss w/anyone via pm but Idw post hands here.
I'd love to know I've always played live but want to play full time online but this thread makes me question the possibility/longevity of it. Would love to talk about it's strat and counters but I can't pm since I just made this account
