Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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this place used to be more active, so most of that wasn't me just talking to myself
It's incredible because I actually think you're sincere right now.
Armed resistance is legal against an occupying force. Israel was just recently deemed an occupying force in Gaza by the International Courts.
You might have missed it bc it was not very well reported but I can provide links if need be.
This is why we need to support Israel. The anti-Zionist side really sees nothing wrong with executing toddlers at point blank range in their beds. Many in the far left and other Islamist supporters really do operate at Level 1 tribalism, with no first principles. It really is an epistemological wasteland.
This is why we need to support Israel. The anti-Zionist side really sees nothing wrong with executing toddlers at point blank range in their beds. The far left and other Islamist supporters really do operate at Level 1 tribalism, with no first principles. It really is an epistemological wasteland.
do what now?
2 million phones with video and all we get is "reports". Never any video.
Meanwhile in my Twitter feed is the body of a Gazan with torture marks all over his body, whose own family reported he was tortured and murdered by Hamas for speaking against Hamas.
And recycled video feed of October 7th footage where a Hamas soldier (in uniform) executed 2 Israeli young women at point blank range begging for their lives.
Funny how in Gaza, again with 1 million video cameras and a population extremely sympathetic towards Hamas, there is no video footage of atrocities committed by IDF forces, but plenty of video footage of Hamas committing atrocities; including numerous street tortures and executions.
As you like to say, every accusation seems to be an admission when it comes to Hamas sympathizers.
Bruv there's a ton of videos
I was ostensibly banned for posting them.
They're Americans, so they think the whole world revolves around the US, which it doesn't. Israel regards the US as useful, but as soon as the US ceases to be useful (which is not in prospect) it will necessarily be discarded. Israel managed quite well for 20 years before the US, for its own reasons, started handing Israel diplomatic support and military kit like the F-4E Phantom. Up to then, Israel was more dependent on Britain and France (who suspended arms sales after Israel's 1967 aggression
This might be an erroneous position, but some of the Israeli right view American involvement as having worked against Israeli interests in totality. As the US has repeatedly forced Israel to appease its enemies, normally for concessions that benefit the US more than Israel.
The more US foreign policy turns to appeasement and refusal to escalate, the more allies and geopolitical influence it may lose. The US has already lost much influence in Africa, and the Middle East may be the next stone to fall. If these are the last days of the American empire, Israel may be the last to jump off the ship, but eventually even they will.
Were supporting a ceasefire, recognising a palastinian state etc. I'd like us to do a lot more but were exerting real political pressure on our government which is bearing some fruit. No-one is suggesting Israel lay does it's arms.
In the end though we're a 2nd rate power with minor influence at best.
The problem is that nations like Britain and France have no influence to resolve problems, but they have the capacity to make things worse; by providing aid and moral support to cynical, nihilistic, unreasonable actors like Hamas and Hezbollah who will cynically take your aid, and then use it to try to cause chaos and disorder. And it appears this is the path Great Britain has chosen.
GB will provide funding for UNRWA, which will work with Hamas to remilitarize Gaza and remake it a base to continue the generational Jihad against Israel. And so nothing will ever get better. And this is on top of GB's tacit support/appeasement of radical violent home-grown Islamism, which will continue to spread and destabilize the world.
Little ability to do anything good, but a lot of capability to support mischief. Handing out unconditional aid to bad actors that cynically use the aid for nefarious ends is not good foreign policy. Better to do nothing and leave such policy to more influential nations that have leverage to make sure the aid isn't cynically used to make the world a worse place.
I appreciate that when netanyahu's doomed to failure monstrosity fails then it will be blamed on others.
I want the UK to have no part of denying desperately needed, basic health, education etc support to teh Palastinians so I'm very happy that supporting UNRWA is something we have resumed. It's not much but it is something. I'm also pleased we dropped our obstruction to the ICJ and have said we will enforce any warrants if they get issued (although I'll believe that when I see it).
I appreciate that when netanyahu's doomed to failure monstrosity fails then it will be blamed on others.
I want the UK to have no part of denying desperately needed, basic health, education etc support to teh Palastinians so I'm very happy that supporting UNRWA is something we have resumed. It's not much but it is something. I'm also pleased we dropped our obstruction to the ICJ and have said we will enforce any warrants if they get issued (although I'll believe that when I see it).
Suicidal empathy against bad faith actors that will weaponize your empathy against you is not a virtue. When you are a conquered vassal state dont expect any empathy to be returned, because it wont be.
Maybe but not relevant
My empathy is with children, people etc etc. I absolutely dont agree with sacrfificing them and afaik collective punishment is a war crime
The West is not going to agree to genocide and they will continue giving aid to avoid it, you can work within that framework or complain it, but it will continue to exist. No one is saying return to the previous way of doing things, aid needs to be given but it has been made clear that there needs to be a presence in Gaza assuring it is spent on the appropriate things.
Israel’s doomed failure to eradicate Hezbollah deterred Hezbollah from kidnapping hostages for decades.
I am having a hard time understanding why some people have such a hard time understanding the idea of restoring deterrence, at a minimum, when it clearly has worked in the past for Israel whereas appeasement got Israel nothing but pain.
The West is not going to agree to genocide and they will continue giving aid to avoid it, you can work within that framework or complain it, but it will continue to exist. No one is saying return to the previous way of doing things, aid needs to be given but it has been made clear that there needs to be a presence in Gaza assuring it is spent on the appropriate things.
Gaza seems like the least of the problems right now. There just seems to be this overwhelming trend of all these places with heavily armed Islamist militias receiving massive Western aid, which is then cynically used to make everything worse.
This seems to be the pattern:
--Islamist militia gains power
--Promises to destroy Israel/West
--Instead destroys their own country mismanaging it while focusing on building their war machine
--Western aid comes in
--Western aid cynically used to continue building war machine
--Country continues to get worse and worse
--Western aid continues to increase
--Aid continues to be mismanaged
--Islamist militia starts/joins war, again calling for destruction of the West
--Western Aid has to increase again
Seems to just be this endless cycle of unconditional aid to bad actors just feeding the dysfunction. Yemen, Lebanon, Iraq, Syria, Palestinians, etc.
The Houthis are the most extreme example. They mismanage all their resources on their war machine. The West has to come in to feed all the people, and then Houthis start shooting at and killing the people bringing them food.
Children shot by snipers, twice.
The most moral army in the world.
Alas not yet.
Haaretz article is hilarious. Guys, we gotta stop doing genocide not bc its bad but bc other countries wont like us anymore.
