Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
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Have we gone from it being so obvious that sinwar is the worse of the two options that no one would ever argue against that to doubting whether it's true?
In the event Haniyah was kept in the dark in order to be able to be "clean" then he was not aware of October 7. And why would he be chosen for this task?
I wouldn’t really say one is worse than the other but the combination of the two is worse than either one alone. Sinwar is more militant but less politically savvy.
It’s hard to say. It’s possible that he was chosen because of perceptions in the west or some inherent quality. However, it seems odd that these articles can’t provide a single quote calling him pragmatic or moderate. He was involved in Hamas for nearly 40 years so maybe he just had the most political connections. My personal belief is that if he didn’t know about Oct 7, it was a deliberate effort to compartmentalize the plans for security reasons or optics. Haniyeh was surely content knowing that the military wing was waging war against Israel without providing him the exact details.
Regardless, the pos is dead and we will eventually see if Israel knew what they were doing or not.
Israel knows what they are doing for sure. they know they are doing extermination and some of the most gruesome rape torture in history.
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/nat...
Iran might be second-guessing its Israel attack
Israel's finance minister, Bezalel Smotrich, has said the starvation of millions of Gazans might be “justified and moral”.
Someone should send him a link to this forum.
https://www.politico.com/newsletters/nat...
Iran might be second-guessing its Israel attack
Reports are there were lots of talks with Russia and the US, and Iran may have accepted bribes not to escalate.
There seems to be real concern that if Iran attacked, Israel would respond by taking out oil fields and oil infrastructure; and for whatever reason the Biden defense department doesn't want that to happen. For some reason, the Democrat Party really loves the IRI and is doing everything they can to keep them in power, despite all the "Death to America" rhetoric. I admit I dont get it.
Have we gone from it being so obvious that sinwar is the worse of the two options that no one would ever argue against that to doubting whether it's true?
In the event Haniyah was kept in the dark in order to be able to be "clean" then he was not aware of October 7. And why would he be chosen for this task?
Bluegrass,
I think you (and a lot of other westerners) want there to be a "moderate" Hamas faction to deal with so bad; that everyone is trying to wish cast one out of thin air. It just isn't there. There is no one on that side working towards peace and reconciliation, and if there was Palestinian society would reject them anyways.
I dont think Haniyeh or Sinwar being in charge on the political side actually matters, especially considering your own reports acknowledge Sinwar had final say on all negotiations anyways. It only matters in the ability of Western leaders and media to gaslight to put pressure on Israel.
Yeah I think Russia probably had a bigger role in talking Iran into backing down, but who knows?
Dunyain: why do you think I am wishcasting a moderate Hamas out of midair? Can you point to a single post of mine that shows me doing that? You've been arguing against what you want me to be saying instead of what I am saying for some time now.
Sinwar having final say on all negotiations strengthens my case and very much weakens the case for killing Haniyeh.
Sinwar having final say on all negotiations strengthens my case and very much weakens the case for killing Haniyeh.
Why? Keep in mind Israel has vowed to go after all of Hamas leadership, and has already killed up to 2/3 of them; so it is not like their policy is to spare anyone more "moderate" than Sinwar.
Maybe there is an actual leader they consider moderate they are not targeting. But if there was, it certainly wouldn't have been Haniyeh, and I wouldn't have a clue who it is.
For the same reason several posters were attempting to blame Haniyeh for things he had no control over.
There is not a moderate leader. It's hamas. As you've pointed out, Israel keeps killing the leaders. Israel also keeps killing people in Palestine. They are creating a situation where only more and more extreme leaders will come to power.
You're claiming that I'm arguing that Haniyeh was a moderate; I'm not. What is happening though is what I explained earlier: since there's no good option, posters itt are going to justify getting rid of the less bad options.
Your search for a moderate Hamas leader is going to come up empty handed. Your appeal to the morals of antiquity is not going to be accepted and Israel will also not be allowed to genocide millions. This means they will need to deal with Hamas, and the less bad option will eventually have to be good enough. Israel (and You're cheering them on) is in the process of burning through every less bad option available so they will be dealing with the absolute worst options eventually.
The Jerusalem Post | JPost.com 
The state dept is feeling the pressure, it seems. Not a great look for everybody involved..
Sinwar is basically a peacenik dove compared to the Israeli and USA leaders
I don't know how to explain this any better: Haniyeh could be the second more evil person on earth, if the choice is between him or the most evil on person then compared to that one person he's relatively good.
no. not even close. It means he is relatively better, or less evil. Less evil could mean that he is more good. But he is not relatively good. They are both evil, one less so. That does not make him good, relative or otherwise.
I mean, cmon, seriously
scum of the earth. and i'm including the americans for unilaterally enabling this. they all deserve to burn in hell
Sinwar is apparently still alive, though not seen in public since October and believed to be living underground (literally).
Ok read a lot of the Btselem testimonies. Lots of Israeli women are doing rape and torture too.
For the same reason several posters were attempting to blame Haniyeh for things he had no control over.
There is not a moderate leader. It's hamas. As you've pointed out, Israel keeps killing the leaders. Israel also keeps killing people in Palestine. They are creating a situation where only more and more extreme leaders will come to power.
You're claiming that I'm arguing that Haniyeh was a moderate; I'm not. What is happening though is what I explained earlier: since there's no good option, post
I think most of us just aren’t following your logic.
Maybe it’s because you’re operating under the impression that Israel wants to or needs to negotiate with Hamas. Either way, I think we’re looking at this situation through different lenses.
Israel is not searching for a moderate Hamas leader, unless it’s to eliminate them.
Bc that's worked so well
no. not even close. It means he is relatively better, or less evil. Less evil could mean that he is more good. But he is not relatively good. They are both evil, one less so. That does not make him good, relative or otherwise.
I mean, cmon, seriously
Your constant semantic arguments are always irrelevant and incorrect. On the scale of good and evil less evil is more towards good...
It's all irrelevant, my point in that post is extremely clear and there was no confusion from anyone it was directed towards.
Doyle: I think you are correct. Let me know when Hamas is eliminated and I'll admit my assumption was wrong.
Hamas: exists
Israel: so mad they do genocide and mass rape
