Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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Please be aware this thread is strictly moderated[/quote]
This isn't a description of a war when you have easily identified military combatants with their own uniforms.
"Kill anyone who might be Hamas or might be related to or a neighbour of someone in Hamas" is an excuse for genocide, clearly.
If it was such an excuse, why did they kill less than 1% of the population in 10 months?
Even people without bombs kill a lot more when they do intend to commit genocides
Israel can be doing something wrong, but only under the lens of "eradicating Hamas is the main goal".
They aren't killing enough people for sure, for one.
But your criticism is from the opposite side, fore sure Israel isn't doing "too much".
There is not "too much" until no one alive agrees with Hamas
And there it is again. Justifications to kill 70% of the population by your own words.
Not going to respond to the rest, we're going to keep going in circles and it's getting exhausting arguing with warmongers.
If most of Hamas are dead why is the bombing still going on?
Hamas aren't in power because your side believes most of them to be dead.
Unless the bombing's about something else such as a genocide of a people.
He meant most of the registered Hamas soldiers. Now the bombing is meant for the rest. By Luciom's words. The less Gazans the better for Israel.
imagine the boost to hamas and hez recruitment if israel's response to the coordinated rape and murder spree of oct 7 had been to phone qatar
Terrorism, which seeks only to perpetuate itself because terrorists enjoy doing terrorism, always works by triggering a response from the target state which the terrorists think will serve to 'radicalise their base' and provide a continuing pretext and support for their nasty little hobby. It's unlikely Oct 7 was any different. They may have imagined that Israel's military response would be much more limited than it was, because of the sheer number of hostages taken and Israel's unfortunate habit of rewarding hostage-takers in the past, but they pretty certainly meant to trigger a military response.
Phresh has been banned for a week for posts made in the trans thread.
He has also been infracted for making numerous personal attacks in this thread in the span of 24 hours.
You may NOT attack the character and motivations of posters in this thread- you are to address what is POSTED and the content of those posts alone. We do NOT need editorializing on what we all think of one another for holding various opinions.
Criticize the viewpoint, not the person who holds it.
weird how their leaders keep turning up dead in the places which israel is targeting
And there it is again. Justifications to kill 70% of the population by your own words.
Not going to respond to the rest, we're going to keep going in circles and it's getting exhausting arguing with warmongers.
I am pretty sure people would stop agreeing with Hamas if people agreeing with Hamas start getting killed one by one from the top of the hierarchy.
"Warmonger" isn't very descriptive.
I favour the use of military force to kill enemies, that's exactly what it is for
Not when they are precisely aimed at 100s of people at prayer
The idea that all Muslims are part of the "recruitment pool" of Hamas is so laughable. Tell me the likelihood of a Gazan who lost his home and family in this conflict joining Hamas vs the average Muslim from the 5 million Muslims living in USA.
Person A: 'We need to kill all of Gaza so they can't use the aid for terrorism!'
Person B: 'I would rather police the aid instead so it can't be use for terrorism and we don't have to kill anyone innocent.'
Person A: 'There are no arguments against killing all of Gaza, only "I don't like war!!!", we need to kill them all!'
Did you inform Assal that if they've used a disproportionate amount of force in some cases when they could have used precision it means they've never used precision to limit the amount killed? (Despite the examples we have gone over where you agreed it limited deaths.)
The idea that all Muslims are part of the "recruitment pool" of Hamas is so laughable. Tell me the likelihood of a Gazan who lost his home and family in this conflict joining Hamas vs the average Muslim from the 5 million Muslims living in USA.
An American is far more likely to join a far right American movement than they are to join a far right Italian one. Of course a Muslim living in the US is much less likely to join hamas than one living close by.
If you look at any radical organization, Natzi Germany, Imperial Japan, the Confederacy, etc, they didn't have success in recruiting because people lost their homes. They had success because they were effective at pushing out their messaging through mass media.
Did you inform Assal that if they've used a disproportionate amount of force in some cases when they could have used precision it means they've never used precision to limit the amount killed? (Despite the examples we have gone over where you agreed it limited deaths.)
they have never tried to limit the amount killed. in fact, in every instance they have aimed to kill the most. at 10 months into this, that is so blatantly obv that its not even worth discussing.
Luciom, why did 9/11 happen?
Did you inform Assal that if they've used a disproportionate amount of force in some cases when they could have used precision it means they've never used precision to limit the amount killed? (Despite the examples we have gone over where you agreed it limited deaths.)
FWIW the IDF is arguing the strike Victor is referring was extremely precise and liquidated 19 terrorists, with little to no collateral damage. And the IDF even gave a list of the terrorists by name and picture, including one high ranking commander which has been confirmed by Islamic Jihad.
So if you are arguing the IDF is not being precise enough, I am not even sure this is a good example. I think part fo the problem is that even people who try to be objective (including people in this thread) fall into the trap of accepting Hamas propaganda at face value, so the narrative isn't particularly aligned with reality.
Warfare is brutal, and urban warfare is especially brutal. Which is why most responsible governments dont choose their own cities as battlegrounds and use their own civilians as shields. As has been mentioned, it is very possible this is the lowest ratio of civilian to belligerent urban battleground ever, including Mosul. And certainly a lower ratio than any of the major urban battles of WWII.
bro you just said "little to no collateral damage" about a strike on a school that blew 80-100 people literally into pieces
I get a lot of these kinds of posts about the Ukraine and Israel war. Then I check real media and find it is completely made up. I have a hard time figuring out the utility of literally just making **** up, normally about how Israel and Ukraine are losing so bad and taking so much damage/casualties.
I mean, Victor seems to consume this kind of stuff and believe it all at face value, so I guess there is some audience. But what is the value of having a small (or even big) number of westerners who have completely deluded themselves that the side they identify with (Russia, Hezbollah, Hamas, etc) is doing a lot better than it is in their war effort.
yeah man ukraine are def #winning
where are you getting that idea?
israel definitely seem to be struggling as well. sounds like hamas might be ~fully operational, and israel are definitely taking a lot of casualties (especially when you count wounded). it also came out in a supreme court thing that they were running out of tanks, ammo, etc. but you're right, you won't hear much about any of this from the western propaganda outlets. i'm not saying that hamas are "winning" or anything, but they seem to be holding out ok. probably why israel are responding by killing loads of civilians
yeah man ukraine are def #winning
where are you getting that idea?
israel definitely seem to be struggling as well. sounds like hamas might be ~fully operational, and israel are definitely taking a lot of casualties (especially when you count wounded). it also came out in a supreme court thing that they were running out of tanks, ammo, etc. but you're right, you won't hear much about any of this from the western propaganda outlets. i'm not saying that hamas are "winning" or anything, but they se
Have you seen Gaza lately? Do you really think Hamas is doing ok?
yeah man ukraine are def #winning
where are you getting that idea?
israel definitely seem to be struggling as well. sounds like hamas might be ~fully operational, and israel are definitely taking a lot of casualties (especially when you count wounded). it also came out in a supreme court thing that they were running out of tanks, ammo, etc. but you're right, you won't hear much about any of this from the western propaganda outlets. i'm not saying that hamas are "winning" or anything, but they se
Well, "winning" or "losing" is pretty subjective depending on what arbitrary parameters you define as a win. If starting a war and then hiding in holes while your entire city-state is destroyed, and losing 60% of your commanders in the process, is winning as long as you still exist in some decreased capacity, then sure I guess.
Anyways, I am talking about tweets, normally in reference to some battle or attack, that literally make wild claims that obviously aren't true, and normally take 5 seconds of searching to confirm aren't true. What is the utility of continually making such posts?
