Israel/Palestine thread

The international scene varies a lot.

The main players in the west are (were) decidely pro Israel. It's all fast moving in the wrong direction for Israel because netanyahu is continuing to hemorrhage support. If it isn't turned round then in the longer run that will matter far more than any destruction of present day hamas.

A bunch of the names were killed in other attacks at earlier times for one thing.

such as

I guess we disagree on the present conditions. Things don’t seem to be going in the wrong direction, considering the starting point of reference is Oct 7. The US still supports Israel which is all that matters, and college campus protests are not an indication of that changing.

They kind of have to. Israel isn't going back to 1967 borders, the Palestinians are not going to give up on their struggle. Israel is doomed if they don't clear them out. Maybe not in our lifetimes but could be as soon as our grandchildren's.

Boycott and divestment is working.

Starbucks had to lay off 2,000 workers.

Coca Cola mounted a desperate PR campaign emphasizing its links to local businesses in the Muslim world. Said there was even a plant "in Palestine." Then it turned out it is an Israeli owned company in a West Bank settlement!

what are starbucks and mcdonald purportedly doing to justify the boycott against them for Gaza-related stuff?

There isn’t anywhere to drive them out to. There isn’t a single country or nation that is willing to take them in. The neighboring Arab nations which are about the only realistic options are vehemently against taking in Palestinian refugees, and for good reasons.

The Israeli human rights organization B'Tselem has a new report out about the archipelago of torture camps set up by the IDF.

Welcome to Hell.

No one's saying this, but the Israeli government might see it as a desirable side effect

You just said it lol. Anyways, I think the Cancun Middle East conspiracy has been DEBUNKED. IMO if Israel takes any land in Gaza it will be to establish a DMZ zone or something along those lines.

Of course like 99% of the Palestinian solidarity movement, this is doing absolutely nothing positive for Palestinians, for a variety of reasons. And it is undoubtably causing negative impact. With friends like Bill Haywood, who needs enemies?

Of course the vast majority of Palestinian cause supporters are just virtue signaling for their own selfish reasons, and are mostly indifferent towards the Palestinian condition, which is why they are so indifferent towards their support having no positive benefits; and arguably giant negative impacts

1. I would say the most important reason Palestinian support abroad hurts Palestinians is the support they receive is for antisocial behavior which directly hurts them and makes their situation hopeless. Needless to say all the moral and financial support Hamas receives from the Arab world and the West hurts Palestinians tremendously.
2. Boycott campaigns harden Israelis against Palestinians.
3. The West is the entity which actually materially supports Palestinian people, directly and indirectly. Coca Cola in Jordan having to shut down and being replaced by a local brand is not going to help Palestinians, as the former is much more likely to directly and indirectly provide aid to Palestinians.

what are the good reasons?

ok but just to understand what's going on, what's the reason to target those companies? what's the link with Israel? i read the cocacola factory in the west bank, ok, what about starbucks and mcdonalds?

risk of taking in very militant islamic terrorists is high

They don’t want to take in any radical Palestinian extremists and if you accept refugees it’s basically inevitable that a bunch will slip in.

You can play dumb but Egypt and Jordan are very serious about this.

That’s definitely part of it. You’re leaving out the potential for social unrest from economic strain and protests of all kinds.

Those who kept actively fighting yes. But many hid in tunnels as you know (built with UNRWA and Iran money), and you can easily imagine some/many stopping fighting and mixing back with the normal population, ready to strike in the future (one of the many reasons why Gaza needs to be occupied for decades, investigations about all military age men made in detail and so on)

That's low in egypt because you can build camps in the middle of nowhere, as a proportion of the total population they would still be a small fraction, and you get paid a lot by the west to take in those refugees, more per person per year than egyptian GDP per capita.

It would be a huge money making machine for people close to the government, the fact that even with that they refuse is a big tell of how scared they are of having to deal with palestinian terrorism.

For Jordan yes, they already took in a huge amount of refugees, they risk social unrest and so on

Obvisouly no-one wants them 'driven in' by israel but there's Jordan

This ties in with our previous bit. Jordan has both a large Palastinian population and a large number of Palastinian refugees. It's also a western ally that helped out when iran attacked Israel. It's under increasing pressure because of netanyahu's actions. It's hit the economy hard, iran is trying to ferment trouble, the populations are getting more and more annoyed. Some object to Unrwa funding but there are millions of refugees being helped.

It's not perfect but it is seriously bad for Israel if Jordan turns. Netanyhau is making that more likely. Of course it may not happen but the risk is steadily increasing.

and that's just Jordan.

Jordan is letting the IDF use its airspace. They aren’t stupid and aren’t turning on Israel and the US. Jordan has a history of militant Palestinians abusing their hospitality and they’re not going to let it happen again.

I didn't say that was the reason for the invasion of Gaza.

They won't let it happen. The forces involved aret potentially massive and they may not be able to stop it.

That's part of the risk

Yes Jordan is a fragile place that tried it's best for decades and managed very decently. I might be biased by my trips there but I also like the people a lot.

They should come to the conclusion they should ally with the west in full though. I understand why they felt they had to play both sides for their survival and I don't blame them for that.

But if it wasn't for the monsters on western countries creating doubt, Jordan would be fully with us (and so with Israel) helping eradicate any Iranian influence in the area.

Jordan is fully Sunny. Iran is their mortal cultural and theological enemy. We can push them to the right side of history oj full and of Israel proves it is committed, that helps. It's not detrimental.

Jordans are smart they can see there is no future on Iran side.

Only war and genocide of your population of you insist.