Israel/Palestine thread
Think this merits its own thread...
Discuss my fellow 2+2ers..
AM YISRAEL CHAI.
[QUOTE=Crossnerd]Edit: RULES FOR THIS THREAD
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anecdotal ragebait, bro
and speaking of which, here's mehdi with a new documentary of anecdotal ragebait. just hundreds or thousands of individual anecdotal war crimes and declarations of genocidal intent that definitely don't add up to any kind of pattern, even if soldiers and others admit that lots of this stuff is being ordered from the top down (like the civilian detainee bomb-sniffing human shield story from the other day):
That one really stung didn't it? You just can't let it go. A woman being attacked for wearing a hijab, in America, is not the same as things which are actually occurring in Gaza. Not sure how else to explain this.
For someone who bashes others for caring too much, you seem to really care.
It's really simple BG: the US should cease supplying arms to a nation that is committing mass murder. As obnoxious and inarticulate as Victor can be, he's kind of correct here.
This is not what is being argued. He's kind of (extremely) wrong here. Israel does have enough weapons to continue operations in Gaza.
Do you believe that if Israel didn't have a smart bomb they show restraint and ignore this target?
grim talks about it around 5:00 of this video:
he says it's a deal the biden/israel put forward in july, not sure which one that was. but i assume this is to prove that netanyahu has been telling the truth all along that he doesn't want any kind of deal.
Thanks
"Hamas sources told the BBC that the introduction of the new conditions - that displaced Palestinians should be screened as they return to the north of Gaza, as well as the question of control of the Philadelphi corridor that borders Egypt - have been sticking points."
So I guess the big deal in July was that Hamas agreed to a temporary ceasefire to begin with, dropping the condition that Israel agree to a permanent one off the bat.
That one really stung didn't it? You just can't let it go. A woman being attacked for wearing a hijab, in America, is not the same as things which are actually occurring in Gaza. Not sure how else to explain this.
For someone who bashes others for caring too much, you seem to really care.
you have been corrected on this multiple times. the women's 3 year old toddler was attacked and nearly drowned.
it was much more than an attack on a women "for wearing a hijab". it was an attempted murder of a toddler.
you wonder where these people get such hate? I have my suspicions. I dont need to wonder why you downplay these crimes tho.
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You have not corrected me, because I am correct. The woman was attacked for wearing a hijab. Yes her child was also attacked. I have corrected you on the importance of this multiple times.
And you're trying to tie this to Gaza.
Furthermore you two are constantly attempting to troll me. My point that this is ragebait with very little to do with Gaza is correct. You two have for weeks (months?) Been trying to suggest that I think EVERYTHING is ragebait, when I myself have brought up Israeli war crimes, and violence towards citizens.
It's dishonest. It's straight up trolling. And the irony that you two are the loudest critics of the mods here, yet the mods constantly allow your dishonest and bad behavior is just too much. 0 awareness. 0 honesty.
And on the last page you are telling me I support the targeting of civilians, a blatant lie.
Why is this behavior condoned? It's outrageous.
Intentionally dishonest trolling.
You have not corrected me, because I am correct. The woman was attacked for wearing a hijab. Yes her child was also attacked. I have corrected you on the importance of this multiple times.
And you're trying to tie this to Gaza.
Furthermore you two are constantly attempting to troll me. My point that this is ragebait with very little to do with Gaza is correct. You two have for weeks (months?) Been trying to suggest that I think EVERYTHING is ragebait, when I myself have brought up Israeli war cri
this women tried to drown a 3 year old toddler after questioning the Palestinian American mom about "where she was from". this happened bc the media has dehumanized Palestinians for months on end. and it is part of a pattern of many other heinous attacks including the 3 Palestinians shot in Vermont and the 6 year old boy stabbed to death in Chicago.
so yes, its directly applicable and all I can say is that downplaying it is not really good look.
It's really simple BG: the US should cease supplying arms to a nation that is committing mass murder. As obnoxious and inarticulate as Victor can be, he's kind of correct here.
Many Israeli's are actually starting to come around to this position too. The US has been bribing Israel for almost 60 years to not destroy its neighbors who have been attacking them. And given this has allowed them to be completely surrounded by Iran and its proxies, with constant threats and attacks against them; many Israelis are starting to think they should put matters back into their own hands; and finish off their enemies once and for all.
So you may get your wish. It will likely results in 10s if not 100s of millions killed, but you will be able to sleep well at night 10,000 miles away. And that is really what is important anyways.
In other words, the entire progressive left position in this thread is a case study in narcissism.
Do you believe that if Israel didn't have a smart bomb they show restraint and ignore this target?
I believe the US should stop arming Israel and this logic puzzle you're spinning is dumb.
Another great reason to stop supplying them with weapons!
And on the last page you are telling me I support the targeting of civilians, a blatant lie.
No, you simply support giving bombs to the people who are shamelessly bombing civilians. Maybe it's not 100% fair to connect the dots, but it's certainly not a troll.
I dont know either of these people, so I am not making any comment on them personally. But this is seemingly part of a general trend in the Muslim world, where 10/7 has pretty much been memory holed.
I remember sitting on my couch on my laptop watching Hamas's own GoPro coverage of RPG's taking out vehicles, including filled ambulances, and then gunmen going to the cars to execute anyone that survived. But to this academic, it never happened; and even if you showed him the footage (again) it wouldn't change his mind.
The way things are going, within a couple years most of the Muslim world is going to convince themselves 10/7 never happened at all.
I know several very active members of this thread have pretty much decided nothing untoward happened on 10/7; Just some reasonable resistance with a few IDF soldiers taken, and nothing much more than that.
Recent polls show over 2/3 of Palestinains support 10/7. I will give most of them the benefit of the doubt they dont support sadistic mass torture and slaughter of civilians; which means they have pretty much memory holed 10/7 and have their own truth of what happened, which doesn't have very much overlap of reality.
i don't care about you, man. i don't think about you, i'm not trying to troll you. if you feel that way, sorry, whatever, idgaf. please put me on ignore and never respond to me again. as i said before, i'd love to do the reverse, but this forum doesn't allow one to ignore mods for whatever reason.
And yet here you are, telling me how much you don't care, proving that you do care. You are telling me how much you don't care as you trolling me because you care. After the very first conversation we had which was you trolling me for caring about Ukraine, and you caring so much that I care about Ukraine that you had to troll me for caring. This dude cares so much.
this women tried to drown a 3 year old toddler after questioning the Palestinian American mom about "where she was from". this happened bc the media has dehumanized Palestinians for months on end. and it is part of a pattern of many other heinous attacks including the 3 Palestinians shot in Vermont and the 6 year old boy stabbed to death in Chicago.
so yes, its directly applicable and all I can say is that downplaying it is not really good look.
Drowning a 3 year old toddler has nothing to do with Gaza. Drowning a 3 year old toddler whose mother happens to be Muslim has nothing to do with Gaza.
Attacking a mother (yes, in this case by pulling her toddler from her and attempting to drown the toddler) because the mother is wearing clothing which indicates that she is Muslim does have a slight connection to Gaza, but it is slight. The fact that you continue to focus on the toddler is further proof that you are using this as rage bait. You have already admitted to posting rage bait ITT. I have explained this multiple times.
I believe the US should stop arming Israel and this logic puzzle you're spinning is dumb.
Another great reason to stop supplying them with weapons!
No, you simply support giving bombs to the people who are shamelessly bombing civilians. Maybe it's not 100% fair to connect the dots, but it's certainly not a troll.
I have voiced similar thoughts. USA should pressure Israel to stop the war, but I don't think it's possible.
USA should
And I believe Russia should stop invading Ukraine. But I don't live in a fantasy world where that is going to happen, so I deal with the actual issues of the day which are within reach and worth discussion. You can keep lamenting about what the world should be like, that doesn't mean that those of us which are actually trying to better the world as it is are evil.
I've said many times that if Israel is incapable of launching an operation that is able to destroy Hamas while limiting civilian casualties then they should not launch an operation at all; but that's not going go to happen.
I've save said many times that if Israel is incapable of launching such an operation and they're going to do it anyways, then USA and allies should pressure Israel not to launch the operation; but that's not going to happen.
Taking into account those two realities, I am for more precision being given to Israel IN ORDER TO LIMIT CIVILIAN CASUALTIES. This does not mean that I agree with every target Israel chooses to use precision weapons on, it means I agree with the attempts to limit civilian casualties. Why is it that the first two parts of these 3 steps is always dropped? I'll tell you: it is done so in order to mislead and misinterpret my position in an effort to troll me. Here's a similar example of dropping all nuance in an effort to mislead: if you believe in limiting precision given to Israel, then you believe in maximizing Gazan casualties. Is that a fair interpretation? It's certainly as fair as dropping all of the nuance behind my arguments, here's a few samples to refresh your memory:
Israel's lack of restraint in this conflict has resulted in an awful state of affairs. Things have gotten so bad that Biden has gone for the "all in" approach: saying he will withdraw support. There is a misunderstanding ITT and elsewhere that this means that Israel will not be able to conduct an offensive against Rafah. They absolute will still be able to, but they will do it with (even) less precision, (even) less restraint, and at a far higher risk of causing a larger conflict.
It proves exactly what I said it proves, and what you agree it proves.
The option is not necessarily "a large dumb bomb was dropped on that building". Those bombs do not always hit their targets, they can be off by up to 100 feet. In a crowded place like Gaza that is the difference between hitting (in this case) the correct apartment building or the incorrect one. Worst case scenario is that multiple apartment buildings were destroyed instead of the one floor that was destroyed due to the preci
In the event of an attack by one of the larger threats in the area Israel would have responded in a way to discourage anyone else from joining in or attempting such an attack again. This means a lot of destructive power. Precision would not be the goal in such a show of force. An unguided bomb costs something like 5k USD. A precision bomb like a Jdam is closer to 30k. You can guess which one Israel was stocking up on for that scenario.
Since this began USA has been trying to send Israel the preci
I do not believe that if USA stopped supplying Israel with aid that Israel would immediately pull out. Bibi and others have explicitly said the opposite. Also the bombs are not the greatest threat to Gaza. We have already seen the beginning stages of famine there, which was ended largely due to international pressure. I think it is possible that if USA and Europe gave up all leverage they have over Israel then Israel could blockade Gaza completely and allow no aid in resulting in the opposite of
Last time the US actually paused weapons sales to Israel, the Germans stepped up and Israel started selling US tech to the Russians and Chinese.
Drowning a 3 year old toddler has nothing to do with Gaza. Drowning a 3 year old toddler whose mother happens to be Muslim has nothing to do with Gaza.
Attacking a mother (yes, in this case by pulling her toddler from her and attempting to drown the toddler) because the mother is wearing clothing which indicates that she is Muslim does have a slight connection to Gaza, but it is slight. The fact that you continue to focus on the toddler is further proof that you are using this as rage bait. You h
the mother was Palestinian American. and the attempted murderer asked her where she was from. read the article.
And?
you were intentionally obfuscating what happened.
if you dont think the third violent hate crime on peaceful Palestinians on American soil is worth discussion in here then your opinion is noted. I humbly disagree. no reason to lie about who was attacked and the nature of the attack.
Stop accusing baselessly and show it. I am not trying to obfuscate anything.
you said that the mother was attacked bc she was wearing a Hijab.
from the articles it was not just an attack but rather an attempted murder of a toddler. and the reason is bc the mother was Palestinian.
I already did show it.
This argument is like "If I give this alcoholic guy a six-pack, maybe he won't drink the bottle of whiskey he has." If the US gives the IDF smart bombs they will continue to drop unguided bombs on schools and massacre a dozen kids a pop. Netanyahu has clearly shown he doesn't give a **** about minimizing civilian casualties and it's not absurd to argue that ethnic cleansing is his main goal. His mango, if you will.
"Every accusation is a confession. Liars lie." No, you didn't show it. You're leaping to the conclusion that suits your narrative.
The title:
Texas woman accused of attempting to drown 3-year-old Muslim girl
"as a hate crime and take all precautions to keep the Muslim family and the Muslim community safe,"
The mother was visibly Muslim and wore a hijab, or Islamic headscarf, and modest swimwear, according to the council.
Texas Rep. Salman Bhojani said he is "shocked and appalled by this alleged racist, Islamophobic occurrence that took place in my town,"
The only time it is even remotely called an anti-Palestine crime is here:
"We ask for a hate-crime probe, a higher bail bond, and an open conversation with officials to address this alarming increase in Islamophobia, anti-Arab, and anti-Palestinian sentiment," Shaimaa Zayan, the council's Austin operations manager, said in a statement.
But it's not referring to this crime in particular. It is referring to a general rise of these three crimes. You are the only one obfuscating, by trying to claim that the drunk woman at the pool was so versed in the Gaza conflict that she was targeting them specifically for being Palestinian and not Muslim.
Maybe it comes out that she heard the word "Palestine" and went crazy, but if she'd heard that she was from another Muslim area she would have said "Oh ok, well carry on in your hijab then," but I doubt it and until then you are obfuscating, not me. This is anecdotal rage bait with almost no connection to Gaza, and that connection is purely from the fact that the mother was "visibly Muslim", not "visibly Palestinian". And this is from the guy who yelled at me because I post "every time a Ukrainian gets his dick blown off" in the Russian invasion of Ukraine thread.
Seems like an important distinction between funding israel to continue its genocide and funding israel to maintain the iron dome.
One is preventing the deaths of 10-100ks of innocent lives while the other is preventing Hamas from ass ****ing and burning anything thats warm bodied for the funzies.
