Israel/Palestine thread

No, you are genuinely just really, really confused on this conflict.

Uh, no. That's not correct, whatsoever, unless you completely rework what the word "indigenous" means. Sure, if indigenous means something other than "originating in a place before the arrival of colonizers" or the native people, then maybe? But if we're using words for what they mean, no, Arabs are not indigenous to the region. They are from the Arabian Peninsula and conquered the region we're discussing in the 7th century. They speak a different Semitic language called Arabic. Jesus spoke Aramaic, the language most commonly spoken by Jews at the time. The Arabian Peninsula is like 750 miles away, home to a completely different culture.

Jews had been living in the region for like 2,000 years before Arabs showed up and conquered it. Jews emerged from the Canaanites who'd settled it first, not Arabs, who had no presence at the time. This is why you can find coins throughout the region with Hebrew inscription, not Arabic. However, the Arabs have been living there for so long that they clearly have a claim to the region. I don't support Arabs being driven from the land on the basis of Jewish indigeneity, but we can't just erase history because it doesn't suit your narrative.

First of all, we're dealing with a transliteration and jizya is also an accepted spelling. But I get it, you don't have many points to make so you've gotta latch onto whatever. Secondly, dhimmi is the extortion I've already referenced, bub. These are intertwined concepts, not separate or something that counters the other. The dhimmi status required payment of jizya, which was a high tax that often had to be paid while bowing or presenting it publicly. Failure to pay would sometimes result in forced conversion, too. You know, because losing your special, super-duper fair dhimmi status meant you no longer had protections as a non-Muslim, leaving you quite vulnerable. Jews enjoyed a much lower status and fewer legal protections for their forced payments to remain in their homeland. Meanwhile, Arab terrorists who've killed Israelis grow old in prison, able to get married, learn to read, etc. That's what we call ApArThEiD cUlTuRe now.

Like usual, I'm unsure what kind of point you think you're making by referencing something that validates my point? Did Victor hack your account or something? Muslims persecuted the "People of the Book" during their reign, dude. As long as Jews and Christians accepted their inferiority and paid high taxes, they'd be allowed to coexist. So progressive that they didn't murder them outright or something, I guess? And just like today, they get along with everyone just as swimmingly, provided you don't draw a picture of that warlord dude or whatever. Unfortunately, those pesky Jews built a CoNcEnTrAtIoN cAmP wAlL aRoUnD GaZa, all to protect themselves from suicide bombings like some straight up haters.

I applaud your support for the 1947 UN borders. That's a bold stance. Most people just call for a return to the 1967 borders.

What definition of genocide are you using? I’ve never seen a definition that says “genocides can’t have people announcing where they are bombing first”

Maybe you have a new definition tho?

Well... let's use that poker reasoning ability, right? If you're trying to exterminate a people (which is what genocide is), why would you give them a chance to escape first?

It’s ok if you don’t know the definition. You can Google it

Which definition are you using ? Or are you making up your own ?

Ok, you and PointlessWords are both operating so completely far outside of reality that I'll have to ignore you both now. BRF is nearing that status, too. Any chance you respond to my point-by-point response earlier or do you just want to keep interjecting with random attempts at making points with more things you don't really understand?

Freak,

I've never seen a single mention of the Rohingya, the situation in Darfur, the Uyghurs, or even Rwanda or Cambodia from any of the "Free Palestine!" folks. Well, I guess that's not true. I think coordi tried referencing the latter by mentioning the Khemer Rogue or something funny earlier. Bless his heart.

Can’t believe you need 2-3000 words a post to be wrong. Again.

You denied dhimmi “status” was a thing. You’re wrong. Nobody denied the treatment was worse than what Israel is giving prisoners now, all though that is to be debated, you flat out said it was “misinformation” that they had protected status.

You are wrong.

Please don’t write another 5000 word post explaining yourself. I’m just going to ignore it.

And maybe the Uyghurs in China.

The big difference is that Americans are not paying for those attacks. We are responsible for what we do, not what Myanmar does. That's the biggest reason criticism is greater over Palestine. And I wasn't aware deaths in Myanmar have hit 200k.

I'm trying to take a step back and assume there's no veiled anti-Semitism going on, but it's increasingly difficult in this thread. I consider myself a very reasoned and fair-minded person, and I can't begin to understand why only one side it as a fault here, and that there isn't an acknowledgement of how Palestine has operated for decades on end. Even this latest flare up into war... I've asked the same question over and over w/ no response. How would you respond?

Again, this was so easily framed by propagandist as the rich, mostly white people vs the poor brown people... and I think that framing has just turned everyone's minds off to the complicated nuances of everything that's going on here. I've spent my life fighting for justice of suppressed, and marginalized people, and issues like this are much more complex than people in here are acknowledging.

But yes, the Uyghurs is a good ongoing example of ACTUAL genocide... but not a peep about it. It's just the evil Israeli's killing innocents for no good reason.

No intelligent argument can be had like this. In reality, this has NEVER been a fair fight. 2+ billion Muslims in the world... vs 15.7 million Jews. Both sides are to blame, and both sides have blood on their hands.

Anyone who claims “not a peep” about the Uyghurs either lives in a cave or is just a liar.

I’m guessing nobody has mentioned Russia or Ukraine either right? People only talk about Israel v Palestine because they’re all anti-Semitic.

Amen. Yet some will have you believe that Israel can do no wrong and the abuse and rape of POWs is totally justified.

Why did you say Democrats are to blame, when both parties are pro-Israel and have funded Israel?

LOL, what? Dude, loosen your helmet straps or something. How would I ever be denying this "status" when I referenced jizya? My entire point is that this "status" was not one of protection, fair treatment, or something positive. This is the misinformation I am referencing, little feller.

This "status" was quite literally extortion from the colonizers who conquered the land from the native inhabitants. Perhaps if you weren't so allergic to reading a few paragraphs, you wouldn't be so woefully misinformed about everything we're discussing?

Ignoring history and reality hasn't been working out that well for you, bud. Maybe it's time for a change when you think people who showed up 1,500+ years after the native inhabitants are also "indigenous?" You realize that "indigenous" and "conquered" don't go together, right? The latter completely upends the former.

Have an adult read my posts to you or run your misfires through GPT or something before hitting post.

I literally scraped every post of mine in this thread for you, hosted it off-site, and linked you to it. I did this all in the name of helping you find these quotes of mine you keep alluding to where I justify rape or call any instance of it "fantasy" if it's on the Israeli side. Still crickets, little feller. It's getting a little tiring when your arguments are simultaneously so misinformed and childish.

the highest International Court recently rules that it was indeed an occupation.

I honestly don't hear much about the Uyghur genocide, and I'd expect something like that in my news feeds. I have to search the information out, and look for it in my podcasts.

It's really easy to be a Monday morning QB, and criticize decisions that are made. It's a whole other thing to be on the field and execute. How would you have responded to Hamas kidnapping, raping and killing women and teens from American soil? What's the appropriate response? What do you do when Hamas uses women and children as human shields in war? Israel would never do that. How would you respond if Hamas launched rockets from schools and hospitals, and then ran into them for cover?

What's the best solution?

I already read that ruling previously. It's not clear what they mean by "effective control"... but what's clear is Israel, moved and negotiated in good faith. Palestine has claimed they are owed all of that area, Jerusalem and more. Do you deny that? So where does it end... that's the problem you guys are skipping over, and that's a primary reason that America has protected and funded Israel as the only democracy in that area for this long.

Geopolitically, this has always been seen as democracy vs theocracy. Which one do you want to win? Interestingly... looks like some American's want theocracy now, even in their own country. That's an unsaid part of why this is gaining more traction.

It's pretty simple, Palestinians have the right to armed resistance against an illegal apartheid occupation. Israel's only legal response is to end the occupation and pay reparations. It's certainly not justified in doing a plausible genocide.

ye you think that, for everyone else it is pretty simple and Palestinians have no right to any land because, to begin with, they don't exist as a specific, identifiable population.

and no Palestinian state ever existed unlike judea.

there is an Arab majority country created for Arabs that probably had ancestors in the area, it's called Jordan.

people currently residing in the west bank and in Gaza can move to Jordan , they have no right to the land they are occupying currently. no moral, no legal, no historical right to it.

any attempt to claim the opposite by force is an act of terror to be dealt as such

The Dems are in the White House. Biden made the decision to provide the munitions for genocide.

But there's plenty of blame to share with the GOP.

Are Palestinians even able to go to Jordan? Would Jordan want anything to do with them when you've got idiots like Sinwar pulling their strings?

the decision was from congress, bipartisan, originating in the house (as all appropriations are) which has a republican majority.

Biden executed the will of Congress as it is it's legal duty to do

millions got there as refugees, many are still there many others moved elsewhere in the world

The Arab nations are not interested in helping "Palestinians" at all. They are used as a proxy to keep killing Jews, which none of the Arab nations want there. Anyway, no, Jordan wants nothing to do with them because they have such a significant population of terrorists who cause nothing but problems. They were forcefully expelled in the 70's after hijacking several planes and landing them there.

Oh yeah, they also assassinated the Jordanian prime minister. After expulsion, they went to Lebanon, where they've continued their terror operations. As a result, Lebanon doesn't allow them citizenship and keeps them in refugee camps that the terrorists utilize for more terror. This would be closer to ApArThEiD CuLtUrE than anything Israel does, but welcome to 2024 where definitions don't actually matter!

Anyway, no, nobody wants them because they're problematic, but especially not Jordan. "Palestinians" legitimately tried to overthrow the Jordanian monarchy. Oh, and they killed a few diplomats in the Jordanian embassy in Beirut, as well. I think this was after they'd started a civil war in Lebanon and screwed that country up, too. They're real fun.

Israel should do something it's never tried before -- grant a state or the right to vote. You know, human rights.