Israel/Palestine thread

No-one has offered a solution

Those arguing that somehow no-one is being radicalisd by israel's actions are the ones who need to produce extraordinary proof for an extraordinary claim

Or you could give it a rest

We argue that if you are already fully radicalized there is no more room to radicalize. There are already millions of arabs across various countries that are willing to kill jews and western people if they have a chance. What they lack is coordination, resources and so on to do that.

Increasing that number at this point is irrelevant. Same threat. Threat is organized , resourceful terrorism using those people against us. Solution is to make it impossible to organize and syphon resources to terrorists, meaning all land has to be controlled by people intended to make that impossible (can be local government as well like Egypt and others).

In gaza and the west bank it means prolonged occupation for decades by forces who are 100% against "palestinian liberation" or any such nonsense. So either Israel, or some western countries, or some secular anti-iranian arab countries forces (again like Egypt). Or like India, would be ok to have gaza + WB under indian militaries for 30 years.

I did repeatedly you just don't like it.

yes claiming everyone who could possible be a theat to israel is already fully radicalised is beyond ludicrous

There's no argument to be had. if some want to claim it they will have to accpet some pointing out that it is ludicrous (to put it mildly).

Okay you may have done. If so yes I didn't like it.

You’re the one who has an issue with the current course of action. The onus is on you to provide an alternative course of action.

Honestly, first person I’m putting on ignore because this can’t be real lol.

I did. As have the Americans and others.

But none are solutions.

Of course I have a problem with Netanyahu actions. So do much of the world.

Feel free. Its probably the strongest defense of your arguments

I changed only one word (that appeared twice) in this quote from 1938, can you guess who the author of the original quote was?

Our people see that in the absence of any powerful ally, and until our armaments are completed, we must adjust our foreign policy to our circumstances, and even bear with patience and good humor actions which we should like to treat in very different fashion. I do not myself take too pessimistic a view of the situation. The terrorists are too often regarded as though they were entirely inhuman. I believe this idea to be quite erroneous. It is indeed the human side of the terrorists that makes them dangerous, but on the other hand, it is the side on which they can be approached with the greatest hope of successful issue.

'Vicious occupation' means different things to different people.

Hamas considers the presence of a Jewish state in the middle East to be a vicious occupation of 'Muslim land' and a valid reason to rape and murder as many civilians of that state as possible, while I do not

Chamberlain, the man who would have given europe to Hitler.

History taught us that irrational people only understand violence. And not even in the sense thay they end up understanding they were wrong. But at least if you kill them they aren't around anymore trying to kill you.

There is no reason to think islamic terrorism has any rational foundation. You can compromise with rational people , even with evil ones, then it's about findining a convenient for us compromise (say with Putin currently).

You can't compromise with people that have completly irrational demands based on religious misreadings of history and texts, that comply them to suicide themselves and their children to kill you if necessary.

And the answer isn't to give up either. It's to kill every one of them (of the terrorists), and if others radicalize, kill them as well.

And to keep doing that until no more people radicalize or they are all dead: both scenarios are fine, as in both scenarios they don't commit significant acts of terrors anyway anymore, and that's the goal.

No chamberlain rearmed. Was advised to delay the war unill late 39. Did so and we did win.

As I say, underrated chap. Not least by hitler

Would you say Israel should kill about 70% of the Gaza population?

No, answers in a poll we don't even know how was conducted don't qualify.

We are talking people who do clear action to show violent intent toward Israel (material support of Hamas or other terrorist organizations).

Revisiting some quotes of this thread, one would believe most Gazans are radicalized. You just said to kill them all.

Funny how the poll results get posted every 3 pages to prove that Gazans en masse support Hamas and want Israel gone but when it's used to show how stupid your extremes are, they're suddenly not useful anymore.

so if the IDF didnt actually introduce the polio (lol ofc they did) they at least intentionally created the conditions and are blocking vaccines and treatment. regardless, looks like Israel can now add biological warfare to its list of crimes.

What historical event are you even talking about? 1948?

For every example of conflict between Jews and Muslims there are ten cases of getting along just fine. When the Jews were driven out of Spain, they were taken in by the Ottoman empire. Jews and Muslims were allied against the Crusades.

Antisemitism is a European import.

This is a straight up lie. Jews, as Dhimmi, were always secondhand citizens subject to discrimination in apartheid Muslim nations and subjected to regular discrimination, including regular pogroms and massacres.

Obviously after the creation of the state of Israel, the discrimination amplified tremendously including state sanctioned persecution of native Jewish communities that had nothing to do with the creation of Israel as a form of collective punishment.

That's from the Hadith, not the Koran. The Koran calls for friendship with the Jews, see this book.

The Koran is much more authoritative. The Hadith is full of contemporary power figures saying what they think Muhammad said.

They were viciously occupying land that Palestinians live/ used to live on (in last 100 years)

There’s an easy way to prove this

Let’s look at how many people Israel has killed from 2006- Oct 7

And then we look at how many people Hamas /plo has killed from 2006 - Oct 7

If one side has killed more than 3x the other, then that side is the evil side.

Sound fair?

Polls are used for lack of better information to make claims about how those people think. But keep in mind people can change opinion if, for example, they understand they could face guaranteed death.

In order to justify killing someone i personally want something more than a poll, maybe for you a poll is enough.

--Partial list of discrimination, pogroms and massacres of Jews that took place under Muslim rule. This is only from the time of Muhammad up to 1108. It keeps going. It is actually more than I thought, and I dont have time to give the full list.

Like I said, being slightly less antiemetic than the Crusaders isn't the great win for Islam that all the Islamists supporters on this site seem to think it is. That is like arguing Stalin was a good guy because he killed less of his people in purges than Mao did.

627
Between 600 and 900 Jewish male captives including any boys showing signs of puberty are beheaded by Muslims on Muhammed's orders, many in front of their families, and the rest of the Jews are taken or sold into slavery in the Massacre of Banu Qurayza.

628
93 Jews are killed in the Battle of Khaybar. Among others, the 17-year-old Jew Safiyya bint Huyayy is enslaved by Muslims, bought by Muhammed to his bed on the very night of the day when her husband was tortured and beheaded and her family is slaughtered, and later manumitted and married to him.[29]

634–641
Jews living in the Levant are forced to pay the Jizya as a result of the Arab-Islamic Conquest of the Levant

640
Jews are expelled by Caliph Umar from Arabia.

642
The Jizya is imposed on the native Jews of Egypt, Cyrenaica, Tripolitania and Fezzan.

717
Possible date for the Pact of Umar, a document that specified severe restrictions on Jews and Christians (dhimmi) living under Islamic rule. However, academic historians believe that this document was actually compiled at a much later date.

720
Caliph Omar II bans Jewish worship on the Temple Mount.[30][31][32]

788
Idriss I attacks Jewish communities, imposes high per capita taxes, and forces them to provide annual virgins for his harem for refusing to attack other Jewish communities. According to Maghrebi tradition, the Jewish tribe Ubaid Allah left and settled in Djerba.[34][35]

807
Abbasid Caliph Harun al-Rashid orders all Jews in the Caliphate to wear a yellow belt, with Christians to wear a blue one.

850
Caliph Al-Mutawakkil decrees that Dhimmi — Jews and Christians — wear garments to distinguish them from Muslims, that their places of worship be destroyed with demonic effigies nailed to the door, and that they be allowed little involvement in government or official matters.

870
Ahmad ibn Tulun flattens Jewish cemeteries and replaces them with Muslim tombs.

985
A number of Jewish residents in Barcelona are killed by the Muslim leader Almanzor. All Jewish owned land is handed over to the Count of Barcelona.[42]

1008
Caliph Al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah ("the Mad") issues severe restrictions against Jews in the Fatimid Empire. All Jews are forced to wear a heavy wooden "golden calf" around their necks. Christians had to wear a large wooden cross and members of both groups had to wear black hats.

1009
Caliph al-Hakim bi-Amr Allah orders the destruction of synagogues, Torah scrolls and Jewish artifacts among other non-Muslim buildings.[43][44]

1011
The Abbasid Caliph Al-Qadir publishes the Baghdad Manifesto, which accuses the Fatimids of being descended from Jews, instead of being "family of the prophet."

1011
A Muslim mob attacks a Jewish funeral procession, resulting in the arrest of 23 Jews.[45]

1011
Pogrom against Sephardic Jews in Córdoba by a Muslim mob.[46]

1013
During the fall of the city, Sulayman's troops looted Córdoba and massacred citizens of the city, including many Jews. Prominent Jews in Córdoba, such as Samuel ibn Naghrela were forced to flee to the city in 1013.

1016
The Jewish community of Kairouan, Tunisia is forced to choose between conversion and expulsion.[47]

1032
Abul Kamal Tumin conquers Fez, Morocco and decimates the Jewish community, massacring 6,000 Jews.

1033
Following their conquest of the city from the Maghrawa tribe, the forces of Tamim, chief of the Zenata Berber Banu Ifran tribe, perpetrated a massacre of Jews in Fez: Fez massacre.

1035
Sixty Jews are put to death in Castrojeriz during a revolt, because the Jews were considered "property" of the kingdom by the locals.[49][50]

1039
A Muslim mob raids the palace of the Jewish vizier and kills him after the ruler al-Mondhir is assassinated.

1040
Exilarch Hezekiah Gaon is imprisoned and tortured to death by the Buyyids. The death of Hezekiah ended the line of the Geonim, which had begun four centuries earlier.

1066
Granada massacre: Muslim mob stormed the royal palace in Granada, crucified Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred most of the Jewish population of the city. "More than 1,500 Jewish families, numbering 4,000 persons, fell in one day."[51]

1071
Jerusalem falls to the Seljuk Turks, many synagogues are destroyed and life for Jews in Jerusalem becomes much more restricted.

1090
The Jewish community of Granada, which had recovered after the attacks of 1066, attacked again at the hands of the Almoravides led by Yusuf ibn Tashfin, bringing the golden age of Jewish culture in Spain to end.

1106
Son of Yusuf ibn Tashfin decrees the death penalty for any Jews living in Marrakesh.

1107
Yusuf ibn Tashfin, the Almoravid caliph, ordered all Moroccan Jews to become Muslim or leave.

1108
Many Jews are massacred and their houses and synagogues are burned following a Muslim victory at the Battle of Uclés (1108). Of those murdered is Solomon ibn Farissol, the leader of the Castile community. This incident greatly impacted the Hebrew poet Judah HaLevi, and completely shifted the focus of his poetry.

I'm not the one advocating for killing all radicalized people. Which btw, would be a lot of Gazans as this is basically step 1 in the Hamas handbook. Get your hands on the youth and radicalize them.

As i reported previously covering the topic it's true that muslims discriminated against jews less than european (it's false to claim they didn't discriminate at all though).

Up to the ottoman empire. Then they chose differently. I wouldn't call it "import" because they chose to become the most antisemite in the world on their own volition, because they disliked the idea of Israel existing, because they had allied with hitler and so on.

Now do the last 100 years, Palestinians compared to Israeli forces