2024 ELECTION THREAD
The next presidential race will be here soon! Please see current Bovada odds. Thoughts?
That's like saying someone who attempted murder isn't guilty if they didn't reattempt the murder when given the opportunity again.
How do you call a predictive claim that cannot be disproven? so basically the idea is that anyone can be considered a threat, and nothing that can ever happen can disprove the threat assessment ex post?
How do you call a predictive claim that cannot be disproven? so basically the idea is that anyone can be considered a threat, and nothing that can ever happen can disprove the threat assessment ex post?
I call that something other than what we're discussing because all the legal claims levied against Trump will be adjudicated in a court of law.
How do you call a predictive claim that cannot be disproven? so basically the idea is that anyone can be considered a threat, and nothing that can ever happen can disprove the threat assessment ex post?
So if someone tries to rape your sister, you're cool with him hanging out outside her house after dark every night, since he wasn't successful last time, and his case hasn't got to trial yet so he is not technically guilty, right? After all, we can't be sure he'll try again, and it's a free country, he should be able to hang out wherever he wants.
I call that something other than what we're discussing because all the legal claims levied against Trump will be adjudicated in a court of law.
The claim by the left is Trump is a threat to american democracy. Which is something the attempted murdered believed as well (judging from his social media content). We will never know i guess whether that was the reason for the guy to attempt the assassination (or if Ukraine was enough), that i admit.
So if someone tries to rape your sister, you're cool with her hanging out outside her house, since he wasn't successful last time, and his case hasn't got to trial yet so he is not technically guilty, right? After all, we can't be sure he'll try again, and it's a free country, he should be able to hang out wherever he wants.
I have reasons to believe my sister which don't apply to believing the mediatic case about Trump having purportedly illegally attempted anything anti-democratic, nor i have any reason to believe a democratic DoJ about anything at all ever, do you see the difference? you do believe democratic media and prosecutors and that's what you base your considerations on.
Given i know how the left works, i simply don't give any truth validity to anything they claim about their opponents. I need it verified from sources i know aren't tainted by leftism.
Same with israel-palestine in a way, i disregard any pro palestine source about everything.
The claim by the left is Trump is a threat to american democracy. Which is something the attempted murdered believed as well (judging from his social media content). We will never know i guess whether that was the reason for the guy to attempt the assassination (or if Ukraine was enough), that i admit.
The fact he is a threat to American democracy is an objective fact given his refusal to relinquish power when he lost the election, in the same way that someone who tries to rape your sister is a threat to your sister regardless if we can be sure if he will try it again.
I have reasons to believe my sister which don't apply to believing the mediatic case about Trump having purportedly illegally attempted anything anti-democratic, nor i have any reason to believe a democratic DoJ about anything at all ever, do you see the difference? you do believe democratic media and prosecutors and that's what you base your considerations on.
Given i know how the left works, i simply don't give any truth validity to anything they claim about their opponents. I need it verified
I don't have to believe anyone for me to see what Trump did and said after losing the election. His own public words, tweets, speeches, and actions are perfectly sufficient for any reasonable person who is not completely blinded by partisanship to see exactly what he was doing. In so far as anything that wasn't public, we literally have recorded phone calls of him so we know exactly what he said.
What are you even trying to argue here? That it might have been "official acts" therefore legal given an ex post facto Supreme court ruling? That is the equivalent of your sister's attempted rapist getting off on a legal technicality, it doesn't mean he didn't try to rape your sister.
#notacult
The fact he is a threat to American democracy is an objective fact given his refusal to relinquish power when he lost the election, in the same way that someone who tries to rape your sister is a threat to your sister regardless if we can be sure if he will try it again.
Fact is, he didn't refuse to relinquish power. He was out the day he was supposed to be out (and that's an objective fact).
Whining and lying about electoral results and so on are not the same as refusing to relinquish power. He didn't order the militaries to defend his claim to stay in the white house after jan 20 for example.
What do you mean with "refusal to relinquish power" given he... did relinquish all the powers of the presidency at midnight 19 /1/2021 ?
We seem to also be forgetting that Trump was judged an insurrectionist by a Colorado court, that decision was upheld by the Colorado Supreme Court, and this finding was not challenged in the appeal to the SCOTUS.
The claim by the left is Trump is a threat to american democracy. Which is something the attempted murdered believed as well (judging from his social media content). We will never know i guess whether that was the reason for the guy to attempt the assassination (or if Ukraine was enough), that i admit.
It's not a claim "by the left". It's an accusation and indictment by the Department of Justice. Whether or not the assassination attempt was motivated by Democrats discussing what's contained in the indictment has no culpability for the Democrats.
Fact is, he didn't refuse to relinquish power. He was out the day he was supposed to be out (and that's an objective fact).
Whining and lying about electoral results and so on are not the same as refusing to relinquish power. He didn't order the militaries to defend his claim to stay in the white house after jan 20 for example.
What do you mean with "refusal to relinquish power" given he... did relinquish all the powers of the presidency at midnight 19 /1/2021 ?
I mean he did everything he thought he could get away with doing, including inciting an insurrection, to avoid having his loss made official and certified. Once it was certified, of course he had to leave the White House; he would have been forcibly removed otherwise.
Anyway, if you're going to continue to deny objective reality regarding Trump's post-election actions and behaviour, I have no interest in continuing this discussion.
The President calling the Governor and SoS of GA and asking/pressuring for additional, fraudulent votes, enough to carry the state after the election is over fits my definition of anti-democratic. I'm sure if that tape didn't exist, conservatives would agree, but because it does they have to pretend like it's fine.
I mean he did everything he thought he could get away with doing, including inciting an insurrection, to avoid having his loss made official and certified. Once it was certified, of course he had to leave the White House; he would have been forcibly removed otherwise.
Anyway, if you're going to continue to deny objective reality regarding Trump's post-election actions and behaviour, I have no interest in continuing this discussion.
He did try everything he thought he could get away with doing yes, i agree with that. And only if what he did was illegal, that's anti-democratic. That's why in the first message i wrote about this topic, to pocket0 i think, i mentioned the legality argument.
Btw in actual anti-democratic events in history, the "of course" you write is what doesn't necessarily goes as planned. Someone stays where he is not supposed to stay, or does something that he couldn't in theory do within the limits of his office, hoping other pieces of the government agree with the choice and act accordingly.
Caesar passes the rubicon. Mussolini marches over Rome. And so on
lol this assassin guy could be posted in just about every thread here.
He did try everything he thought he could get away with doing yes, i agree with that. And only if what he did was illegal, that's anti-democratic. That's why in the first message i wrote about this topic, to pocket0 i think, i mentioned the legality argument.
As I have made clear, if he gets away with it on a technicality it doesn't make it less anti-democratic or change the fundamental nature of what he did, the same as your sisters attempted rapist getting off on a legal technicality makes it any less of an objective fact that he attempted to rape her. You are not so stupid that you don't understand this basic fact, so I don't even understand wtf you are arguing here. Whatever it is, you look like a clown arguing it.
This woman could be as well:
How Loomer expects to protect Trump isn’t clear, given that she is barred from owning a firearm anywhere in the United States. In fundraising emails, Laura Loomer tells her fans that she has been targeted by the FBI for political persecution. They’ve blacklisted her from owning a gun, she says, which threatens her physical safety.
But Loomer’s account misses out a critical detail: It’s not her politics, but rather her fragile mental state that prompted the Bureau to block her from possessing a firearm. Far from singling her out, the FBI has bent over backwards to gently explain to Loomer why she is not a fit person to own a gun.
For instance, a letter they sent her in 2020, in response to her appeal, delicately cited the two involuntary psychiatric holds her own father, Jeff Loomer, had placed her under in the prior half-decade. I know because I’ve seen the letter they sent her in response to her appeal. I have a copy of it in my safe in Los Angeles.
And I know because Jeff, at first reluctant to speak with me, but eventually, once again fearing for his daughter’s mental health this week, confirmed it by telephone on Friday. Jeff, evidently frightened of his daughter, spoke in hushed tones about her emotional volatility and admitted she had attempted suicide several times. “I wouldn’t allow her a gun,” he admitted.
The idea that the attempt was illegal is still TBD, that isn't an objective fact, which is why proceedings are ongoing (and just restarted recently) and he isn't in jail (yet?).
Can't claim someone is a criminal until a court says so in general.
And can't claim that claiming someone is guilty of an exceptionally serious crime, before you have a court confirming that, has no consequences in society.
this has more to do with the weakness of our government and soft stances of the democrats
it's the straw that broke the camels back for me in ever having any faith in our government to function properly nor for either party to ever govern
i hate trump, but this is a terrible label for him and not at all accurate
can't you find a new word to describe someone you don't like that is at least accurate?
Wikipedia's definition:
Fascism (/ˈfæʃɪzəm/ FASH-iz-əm) is a far-right, authoritarian, ultranationalist political ideology and movement, characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived good of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy.
Trump said he wants to be a dictator, has called for the jailing of people who have opposed him, believes immigrants and non-whites are a lower class in our social order, and the government should control what women do with their bodies.
what will your stance be if someone takes a shot at taylor swift then? why are you not condemning his "i hate taylor swift" tweet?
if a maga person attempts Taylor swift assassination I am pretty sure all the left will claim Trump is morally responsible for that and they would have a decent point about it.
btw I called that message an unforced error, if you want I can add that it's a stupid choice, a disgraceful choice, an idiot move.
a detail you are missing though is that I am not condemning criticism per se even if it can generate violence. I am saying you have to own the violence you incite not that's always inherently bad to act in ways that can causally beget third party violence.
a simple "yes, talking incessantly about trump being a threat does increase his chances to be shot at, but given I believe it's true he is a threat, I don't feel bad about it" would have sufficed.
but hypocrisy is a bitch, they have to deflect responsibility even when causally obvious.
A question for d2 e4 and others who claim Trump is antidemocratic: If trump wins in 2024 and there are regular elections in 2026 and 2028 , would you all admit you were completly wrong and so rethink your entire political ideology and ability to assess objective reality?
Because i would if Trump does a coup and stays in power longer than 4 years after winning in 2024.
This attempt at a gotcha is pathetic.
I believe that Trump's instincts are deeply undemocratic. I believe that he would stay in power through illicit means if he had the ability to do so, as he attempted to do in 2020. He relinquished power in 2020 not because he thought it was the right thing to do but rather because he wanted to avoid the spectacle of being removed by force. In other words, Trump ultimately acted in his own self interest only after reluctantly concluding that American institutions were too strong to allow him to indulge his darkest impulses.
I expect that American institutions will always be strong enough to prevent Donald Trump from acquiring or retaining power through illicit means. I say that in part because he is an old man. But it would be a mistake to conclude that he is not a threat or that no damage was done. Firing rounds into a dam is no laughing matter. Maybe the dam holds for a while. Probably it does. But the dam is being weakened, even if you feel safe and dry looking at it from a distance.
Trump doesn't give a rusty **** about preserving the integrity of the dam. That's the point. That's the problem. And that's one of many reasons why he should not be anywhere near the White House.
If you want to mince words I guess the only reason trump isn’t a fascist is his lack of focus, intelligence or competence
Arguing he wouldn’t be one if he could flies in direct conflict with literally everything he has said and done for 8 years
